collinsc: well, not that many cars have 6 speed manual gear boxes. But if they do, then I guess the reverse has to move elsewhere, yes.
E-Sabbath: it’s impossible to shift from 5th into reverse at full speed. It’ll grind, loudly, and you’ll be reminded that you’re already in 5th. Or, your passenger (who happens to be the owned of the car) sternly tells you to put it back in 5th, NOW (an ex-girlfriend, if you must know: she wasn’t a very good driver :)). No way in hell can you wreck a modern manual gear box by accidentally shifting into reverse at high speeds: it won’t “go in”.
Ebola Gay: from what I understand, whilst the official side of the road in India is left, traffic is pretty much all over the place. Then again, a motorbike is probably easier to navigate on the “alien” side of the road than a car, as the controls are all the same. Again, not with these weird Royal Enfields, but I’d feel more comfortable riding my motorbike (Yamaha) in England than drive my car, if you see what I’m getting at.
OTOH, I’ve driven both stick and auto and frankly, can’t imagine being snobby about either. They both have pluses and minuses. Stick offers you more perception of control, but it’s worth noting that many newer RACE cars use auto or auto assisted transmissions since the shifting is faster than a human can clutch thus offering faster response into the new gear. This is not your moms Chrysler Le Baron though. The point is, it’s relative. I’d take a steptronic over either.
Besides, Mercedes don’t come with a manual (in the US).
Speaking of stiff-handling, canyon-carving, fun rides, know what I test drove that was even more fun, IMO, than the 350Z and the RX-8?
You’re not going to believe this, but the Nissan Sentra Spec V. Basically, they stiffened up the ride immensely, stuck a standard Altima engine under the hood, and mated it to a 6-speed manual tranny. It’s only 175 HP V4, but on a tiny, light little frame like the Sentra, it’s almost overpowered. Torquey as all living hell…it’ll jump from a standstill like a jackrabbit. It has the Nissan version of VTEC, except, as it was told to me, the variable timing kicks in at all RPM’s. I understand Honda’s VTEC only kicks in above a certain RPM. As a result, it’s got screaming passing power in all gears. I think I scared the poor salesman stiff. On a section of interstate, off an on-ramp and from a dead stop, I got up to 110 before I hit 5th gear, and it still had pickup to spare.
The tranny is tiiiiight. The shifter has a very short throw, and the clutch takes little more than a gentle toe-tap to engage.
The ride is bumpy, of course. Can’t get away from that on a stiff frame and almost no body weight. But it has virtually no body lean, and it hugs the road.
Best of all, you can get away with one for well under $20K, and it’s still a high gas mileage car.
Only problem to me is that it still looks like a Sentra, with rather cheap after-market rice-burner add-ons. That’s a real turn-off, but it’s still a great little car.
Fucking Hamsters!! Littel buggers just ate my last post!
Anyway, I’ve got three cars at the moment, a MGA 1960 1600cc, a worked 5.8litre V8 ford falcon ute (that is auto, B&M quickshifter) and a manual Toyota landcruiser (2000). I used to restore a few old cars and have had 11 in total.
I chose the manual for the landcruiser because i tow a boat occasionally and autos can get a little sick if put under this type of load. Also the fuel economy is better, otherwise i would have got an auto. Auto transmissions in 4wd drives are underated. In sandy conditions, such as climbing large sand dunes they come into their own as they do not have as much lag between gears as a manual gearbox. Although from a standing start they are easier to get bogged due to having more torque delivered to the wheels. Thats when i take it off road, around the city it is a pig, It is like driving a truck (with roadranger gearbox: Black belt), luckily the nearest city to where i live is 1000kms.
My Falcon ute is an auto because i didn’t want any gear lag when i was drag racing the little beast. If any auto drivers out there want to zip up their cars performance a little bit, shortening the kickdown cable will make your car change down gears at the slightest stab of the accelerator. Won’t increase the performance from a 1200cc engine though.
Both have pros and cons, and both have their place. Each to their own (it is funny when you see the driver of an auto using it like a manual, complete with gear change shoulder roll)
Indeed… then it’s “right, down” for 6th and “FAR right, down” for reverse. The same problem as the VW shifters, but on the opposite corner, and (at least on the Acura I drove) without a gimmick to keep you from hitting the wrong gear accidentally.
The Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V has… very very bad quality control problems. As in, a swing of up to twenty horsepower below rated output and up to five above.
Really, E-Sabbath? I hadn’t heard that. Can you give me more info, or a cite where I can read the critique? That would seem to imply that the standard Altima has the same QA problems, since, from what I’ve heard, the same engine is used…unless the QA problems come from another source.
I’d love to read about it, if you can help me. Given the tremendous luck I’ve had with my current Sentra (225,000 miles and counting, with almost no major work in all these years,) I had considered “upgrading” Sentra models and going with the Spec V.
Sure, you can damage your gear box by slipping it into reverse before your car has come to a full stop (doing, say, 2 miles an hour), but that’s about it. Anything over walking speed, and you simply will not be able to slide the lever into reverse, ever. The reason for this is fairly simple: It’s reverse. That part of the transmission is moving in the opposite direction when the car is moving forward, and it will never engage.
And aren’t those noises a sign of something bad? Teeth getting worn down? At the very least, it’ll give you a surprise you really don’t need when you’re traveling at 6th-gear speeds.
Oh, it’s obviously not good for it. But if you read the link, you’ll see that the grinding is not the actual gears themselves, but the “dog teeth” that are part of the synchromeshes. It’ll give you a surprise, but in reality, any average driver ought to be able to feel he’s shifted wrong before he hears it. The resistance is so much bigger.
I doubt the occasional misshift would significantly wear the gears down completely, though. Besides, reverse is typically shifted into from stationary RPM’s at zero speed: it’s a gear that can probably live with a poorly functioning synchromesh. As would 1st, come to think of it.
According to Tom and Ray Magliozzi, also known as the Car Talk Guys and Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, braking and not downshifting should be used to slow down a car in ordinary traffic (that is, as opposed to on slick surfaces and steep inclines). CiteCite
The Mini Cooper S has 6 speeds. The reverse is also (down) and far left, up.
On my local mini board, someone posted up pictures of a guy’s car (a camero?). He apparently was going something like 90 (and in 5th gear) and decided to downshift to 2nd. “Just for laughs”, if I recall.
I wish I could post the pictures of the ensuing results (they have been taken down). He completely and totally ruined his engine.
Sure, that’s entirely possible. It’ll offer great resistance when you try to put in 2nd at 90 MPH, but it WILL go in if you’re dumb enough. Then when you pop the clutch, the rev counter will max out, any rev limiter will be blown to bits because the inertia of the car will make the engine rev at 15,000 RPMs or somesuch, and the engine block will just explode.
I don’t think that’s what the person you quoted was saying. If I have to slow down a bit (say, from 35 MPH to 25) I can just lift my foot off the gas and let my engine’s compression slow me down. This doesn’t cause any wear on the clutch, because it’s not being disengaged/re-engaged. If I had to come to a stop though (as was mentioned) that’s when I disengage the clutch and use the brakes.
Automatics, on the other hand, don’t seem to like engine-braking very much and will disengage the clutch (or what passes for the clutch) automatically and let you coast. This means you have to use your brakes to slow down some more.
And as an aside, engine-braking is really fun when some jag-off is tailgating me – all of a sudden he’s way closer than he wanted to be
I don’t think an automatic will disengage the clutch when you let off the accelerator. Typically, an automatic will at that point shift to the highest possible gear (for gas mileage reasons, I’m sure), dropping the revs, resulting in an almost negligable engine braking effect. It doesn’t coast: it just rolls along in top gear.
I drive a manual, and I think it’s more fun to drive than my old car. Also, I can tease my boyfriend about not being able to drive it. Hee hee
The only things I hate about manuals are traffic jams and stopping on hills. Especially traffic jams on hills. I have no problem with hill starts but it’s still annoying. It would be easier just to keep it balanced so the car doesn’t move, but I’ve heard that it’s not good for the car, so I don’t do it.
A good point for me about manuals is that it keeps you focused and awake. Much better to be driving a manual when you’re tired I think.
The point is, it’s relative. I’d take a steptronic over either.