# Why wont the US resolve issues? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267 "2012-08-12T14:06:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/161 "2012-08-15T15:50:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well, speaking as an American, all the arguments you set forth are either obviously stupid or based on superstition, except the death penalty argument, which while not stupid in its own right is hardly an answer to the powerful arguments against it. I get so tired of having to treat all this bullshit as if it’s reasonable. In short, I totally understand the OP’s position. The OP’s position seems to be that his position is the only correct position and the U.S. should just stop having a discussion about the issues and resolve everything in his favor. I’m not aware of the voters in Sweden voting on any of the issues he listed: Death penalty - ( **We** decided it wasn’t a good idea) Abortion - ( **We** figured out it needs to be legal) Healthcare - (Turned out it works better if socialized) Gay rights - (The conclusion was that gays are humans and should have rights) Who is “We”? It appears the government made all the decisions. How much input did “We the Swedes” have or is it just a matter of the government always being right so don’t question it’s proclamations? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/162 "2012-08-15T16:24:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The OP’s position seems to be that his position is the only correct position and the U.S. should just stop having a discussion about the issues and resolve everything in his favor. > > I’m not aware of the voters in Sweden voting on any of the issues he listed: > Death penalty - ( **We** decided it wasn’t a good idea) > Abortion - ( **We** figured out it needs to be legal) > Healthcare - (Turned out it works better if socialized) > Gay rights - (The conclusion was that gays are humans and should have rights) > > Who is “We”? It appears the government made all the decisions. How much input did “We the Swedes” have or is it just a matter of the government always being right so don’t question it’s proclamations? Well one way is what many people write on here: if you don’t like it vote for someone else. There are seven major parties here, although they align themselves into two different blocks (but do argue within that). The Christian Democrats have been very vocal about their dislike of certain gay rights (for example marriage). Their share of the vote, IIRC, went down. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/163 "2012-08-15T17:16:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The OP’s position seems to be that his position is the only correct position and the U.S. should just stop having a discussion about the issues and resolve everything in his favor. What do you mean “seems”? > [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m not aware of the voters in Sweden voting on any of the issues he listed: > Death penalty - ( **We** decided it wasn’t a good idea) > Abortion - ( **We** figured out it needs to be legal) > Healthcare - (Turned out it works better if socialized) > Gay rights - (The conclusion was that gays are humans and should have rights) > > Who is “We”? It appears the government made all the decisions. How much input did “We the Swedes” have or is it just a matter of the government always being right so don’t question it’s proclamations? What does it matter to you? Will additional information on how country X got to a certain point influence your view on where the US is right now? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/164 "2012-08-15T18:26:02Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > What do you mean “seems”? > > What does it matter to you? Will additional information on how country X got to a certain point influence your view on where the US is right now? “Seems” means I prefer to let you state your own opinion for the record. As far as what matters to whom, did I ask you for your opinion of the U.S. and it’s ability to resolve issues? Did I ask you, “What does it matter to you?” I welcome your attempt for a better understanding of how the U.S. resolves issues but I disagree with your presumption that others are somehow beneath you because they haven’t resolve issues to your personal satisfaction. These issues that you mention are currently under discussion in the U.S.. So are many other issues. There will always be issues under discussion in the U.S.. Even when they seem resolved, they seldom are resolved to everyones satifaction. On the other hand, this is your opportunity to educated one internet forum on how Sweden resolves issues. Was there a public vote for any of the issues in your OP? ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/165 "2012-08-15T19:28:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Americans have an expensive and unsuccessful educational system … a recent OECD report ranked the United States students 14th in reading skills, 17th in math skills and 25th in math skills out of 34 OECD counties. Yeah, I can see there’s a few maths problems over your side of the pond 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/166 "2012-08-15T20:44:48Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Yeah, I can see there’s a few maths problems over your side of the pond 😉 I see your point. We are 25th in math skills, the 17th ranking was for something else … proofreading skills, maybe? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/167 "2012-08-15T21:11:09Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > You saying “Isn’t enough information” doesn’t actually sit well with you saying “I can see the argument for imposing capital punishment for large scale financial crimes because I think there is a significant deterrent effect.” Either there is or there isn’t, what is it? FACT: There isn’t enough evidence to conclude that capital punishment produces a deterrent effect for current capital crimes. OPINION: I think that capital punishment would produce a significant deterrent effect for white collar crimes because of the nature of the crimes, the sort of people who commit the crimes and the motives behind the crimes. > [@](#): > > But some do try unusual methods to force a miscarriage. And those babies being born into a shit life, well let’s just say that amusingly the more likely someone is to be anti-abortion the more likely they are to not believe in the welfare state, meaning they want more unwanted children around but less resources to care for them. Which is awesome. Whats your point? The OP was wrong in implying that the same number of abortions would occur, right? Or are you trying to argue with me about a point on which we agree? I support Roe V Wade, which provides an absolute right to abortion during the first trimester, permits some regulation during the second trimester and permits prohibition (subject to the health and life of the mother) during the third. If you want to go further than Roe V Wade then we can discuss where you think Roe V Wade didn’t go far enough. > [@](#): > > As a Brit I have never heard it. I also couldn’t find it on Google (except in this thread). So I conclude it is less a saying, more something one guy said once. Why does it matter? Do you think I was trying to steal legitimacy by calling it a saying rather than saying “I have heard it said” wtf is the difference? Once again are you tryign to argue with me on a point on which we largely agree? I support UHC as a solution to our nation’s health care issues but I support a lower level of universal health care to control costs and allows us to purchase supplemental insurance for better coverage. In my mind, health care is like public education. Neither are public goods in the classic sense. I think they are goods that should not entirely be allocated based on ability to pay but like public education, there is not an infinite pool of resources we can devote to the issue. Many public school students would benefit from 1 on 1 private tutoring but we stick 30 of them in a classroom whether that is the best possible method of educating them or not because it is the most cost efficient way of doing things. If you really want that 1 on 1 tutoring, you can pay for it after school or you can opt out of that public education system entirely and pay for a private education or pay for private tutors. I think health care here should be exactly the same. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/168 "2012-08-15T21:14:48Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “Seems” means I prefer to let you state your own opinion for the record. > > As far as what matters to whom, did I ask you for your opinion of the U.S. and it’s ability to resolve issues? Did I ask you, “What does it matter to you?” I welcome your attempt for a better understanding of how the U.S. resolves issues but I disagree with your presumption that others are somehow beneath you because they haven’t resolve issues to your personal satisfaction. > > These issues that you mention are currently under discussion in the U.S.. So are many other issues. There will always be issues under discussion in the U.S.. Even when they seem resolved, they seldom are resolved to everyones satifaction. > > On the other hand, this is your opportunity to educated one internet forum on how Sweden resolves issues. Was there a public vote for any of the issues in your OP? No. We’ve only had public votes on alcohol prohibition (no), right side trafic (no, which the gvt ignored), public pensions (yes), nuclear power (mjeh), EU (yes) and Euro (no). ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/169 "2012-08-15T22:38:27Z")
Frankly, I’m sick and tired of Europeans thinking that they’ve figured everything out, that they’ve got all the answers, and that the US is backwards in all respects. Sure the US has many problems, and sure I disagree with lots of American politicians. But at least we haven’t elected any [avowed anti-Semites](http://news.yahoo.com/hungary-far-leader-discovers-jewish-roots-155354165.html) to the legislature lately. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/170 "2012-08-16T10:10:41Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Frankly, I’m sick and tired of Europeans thinking that they’ve figured everything out, that they’ve got all the answers, and that the US is backwards in all respects. Sure the US has many problems, and sure I disagree with lots of American politicians. But at least we haven’t elected any [avowed anti-Semites](http://news.yahoo.com/hungary-far-leader-discovers-jewish-roots-155354165.html) to the legislature lately. Although the current Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee actively supported terrorism in my country of origin. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/171 "2012-08-16T13:04:23Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Although the current Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee actively supported terrorism in my country of origin. Which is?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/172 "2012-08-16T16:33:24Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Frankly, I’m sick and tired of Europeans thinking that they’ve figured everything out, that they’ve got all the answers, and that the US is backwards in all respects. Sure the US has many problems, and sure I disagree with lots of American politicians. But at least we haven’t elected any [avowed anti-Semites](http://news.yahoo.com/hungary-far-leader-discovers-jewish-roots-155354165.html) to the legislature lately. I’m sure that is annoying, but that’s not the point of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/173 "2012-08-16T17:10:34Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I’m sure that is annoying, but that’s not the point of the thread. The issues in question are currently under discussion in the U.S.. The U.S. legislature is considerably more complicated than the single house parlimentary system of Sweden. We have 1 Federal government, 50 State governments, and a two house Federal legislature (one based on population and the other based on equal representation of all 50 States). Actual jurisdiction for the individual issue must first be identified and then the proper legislation will vote for or against that issue. Individual States decide if they want to have a death penalty. The Federal government and the U.S. Supreme Court can require that State laws be administered fairly for all persons. The Federal government doesn’t currently have the authority/jurisdiction to force the States to legislate the use or non-use of the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/174 "2012-08-16T18:15:23Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I’m sure that is annoying, but that’s not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is that you cherry-picked a few issues that have been settled in Sweden (not Europe as a whole, mind you – just Sweden) and not the US, and then wondered why they haven’t been settled in the US. Somehow this is supposed to indicate that the US is not as “evolved” as Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/175 "2012-08-16T18:25:43Z")
**Public Service Announcement** Be careful about clicking on the link to the anti-Semite site. I tired it twice (slow learner) and each time could only close it by going into the Windows Task Manager and forcefully ending the connection to the site. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/176 "2012-08-16T19:35:56Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > **Public Service Announcement** > Be careful about clicking on the link to the anti-Semite site. I tired it twice (slow learner) and each time could only close it by going into the Windows Task Manager and forcefully ending the connection to the site. It’s a link to Yahoo News, not an “anti-Semite site.” It opened just fine for me. Anyone else having problems with the link? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/177 "2012-08-16T20:15:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s a link to Yahoo News, not an “anti-Semite site.” It opened just fine for me. Anyone else having problems with the link? Opened fine for me. Closed fine, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.SeverhadKW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Mr.SeverhadKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.SeverhadKW)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/178 "2012-08-17T06:19:54Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Well the jury _is_ still out on Creationism. What Jury, Where?!? I’m with the OP on this one. There _actually are_ some things where taking the Progressive point of view does actually line up with objective facts, and as StoneBug says, taking the stance that opposing this would be nonsensical at best allows us to address other issues instead of being held back by a vanishing but vocal minority. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/179 "2012-08-17T12:52:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which is?😕 United Kingdom (you’d know this if you’d have clicked on my username, it is there on my profile). > **[Peter King (American politician)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_T._King#Support_for_the_IRA)** > > Peter Thomas King (born April 5, 1944) is an American former politician and novelist who represented New York in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1993 to 2021. A member of the Republican Party, he represented a South Shore Long Island district that includes parts of Nassau County and Suffolk County and was numbered as the 3rd and later the 2nd district. > King was formerly chair of the House Committee on Homeland Security. He stepped down because of Republican conference term limits, but r... ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267/180 "2012-08-17T13:01:09Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The point of the thread is that you cherry-picked a few issues that have been settled in Sweden (not Europe as a whole, mind you – just Sweden) and not the US, and then wondered why they haven’t been settled in the US. Somehow this is supposed to indicate that the US is not as “evolved” as Europe. If that is what it is to you, I’d suggest ignoring it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-the-us-resolve-issues/631267.md?page=10)