# Why won't TubaDiva or Czarscasm address these 2 questions? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964 "2011-08-08T17:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/1 "2011-08-08T17:21:35Z")
I’ve asked two questions of both **[Czarscasm](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=618900)** and [TubaDiva](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=619230)to absolutely no avail. Yet a single poster asks to be [banned](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=619463)once and gets his wish damn near instantly. I’m guessing TPTB wished that this whole issue would blow over. Well no, I said before I was going to start a thread on it, and here I am. Posted nearly verbatim from at least two related threads: **1)** Why was I warned when I didn’t violate the “[debate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14095407&postcount=53)” rule? **2)** Why were others not warning who continued to [“debate”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=618729) in a very similar manner after the initial four warnings? I would like an answer to number 1 for my own interests, but I’m sure the board at large would love to know why the rule was only selectively enforced. This isn’t just about the answers though, it’s also about making a point: hiding your dirty laundry under the bed isn’t going to make it go away. I’m also curious as to what does this ruling means future threads, a question which has been asked by several other posters, but remains unanswered (as far as I can tell). Though I really hope I get some answers this time, it’s ridiculous that it came to this point in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/2 "2011-08-08T17:38:46Z")
Sorry for the typo. I’ve cleaned up Question 2… 1. Why were those who continued to “debate” after the initial four warnings not also warned themselves? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/3 "2011-08-08T20:10:40Z")
The excitement is palpable. No, seriously. Palp it. I am! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/4 "2011-08-08T20:13:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The excitement is palpable. > > No, seriously. Palp it. I am! My popcorn went stale ☹ Granted, it was already a few years old before being popped, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/5 "2011-08-08T23:10:50Z")
_I talk to the wind My words are all carried away I talk to the wind The wind does not hear The wind cannot hear_ ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/6 "2011-08-09T00:50:00Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > **1)** Why was I warned when I didn’t violate the “[debate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14095407&postcount=53)” rule? > **2)** Why were others not warning who continued to [“debate”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=618729) in a very similar manner after the initial four warnings? The answer to (1) is that you were warned for failure to heed moderator instructions. The answer to (2) is that life is unfair. It’s probably the same reason that I got a speeding ticket when others who had been passing me, didn’t. The answer to your unasked question: It’s only a warning. It’s not a whipping, or a fine, or being put in the public stocks. It’s the moderator saying, “Stop it!” in a voice intended to attract attention (as opposed to a mere mod note.) It’s a reminder to stop a behavior. In short: it’s NOT a big hairy deal. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/7 "2011-08-09T00:58:59Z")
Something smells. Horse or bull? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/8 "2011-08-09T01:44:11Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > T. . . > > The answer to (2) is that life is unfair. It’s probably the same reason that I got a speeding ticket when others who had been passing me, didn’t. > > . . . Obviously you were the only one the cop could catch. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/9 "2011-08-09T02:28:13Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > \ **Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/10 "2011-08-09T02:41:13Z") > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The answer to (1) is that you were warned for failure to heed moderator instructions. No that is not the answer to (1). He saw the instructions and didn’t and still doesn’t think that his post was in violation of those instructions. The question is: How was that post a violation of those instructions? ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/11 "2011-08-09T02:59:45Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > No that is not the answer to (1). > > He saw the instructions and didn’t and still doesn’t think that his post was in violation of those instructions. The question is: How was that post a violation of those instructions? I was going to ask the same thing about rachelellogram’s post that got a warning. Let’s say I wander in to a poll. I note it’s gotten a bit heated and see a mod note saying “Don’t debate it or I’ll kick y’alls in the asses” I want to answer the poll, and want to elaborate my answer a wee bit because I want to put some qualifiers on the answer. I do not post in response to any other poster, I simply put “I voted x because y z” Is that still worthy of a warning for disregarding moderator instructions? Does “no debate in this thread” mean you can no longer post any elaboration on the options in the original poll? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/12 "2011-08-09T03:15:20Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The answer to (1) is that you were warned for failure to heed moderator instructions. > > The answer to (2) is that life is unfair. It’s probably the same reason that I got a speeding ticket when others who had been passing me, didn’t. > > The answer to your unasked question: It’s only a warning. It’s not a whipping, or a fine, or being put in the public stocks. It’s the moderator saying, “Stop it!” in a voice intended to attract attention (as opposed to a mere mod note.) It’s a reminder to stop a behavior. In short: it’s NOT a big hairy deal. Wrong on all counts. For starters, he didn’t ask you. The point of this thread is for the offending parties to answer for their actions in person, not via proxy. If they are unwilling or unable to do that, they do not deserve to remain moderators. And yes, it IS a BIG HAIRY DEAL when some posters get warned for conduct that other posters get away with…that’s biased moderating. Also probably an admission that Czarcasm’s invented rule and the rash of warnings irrationally derived therefrom were bullshit from the start. Same for Tuba’s kneejerk banning. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/13 "2011-08-09T08:44:42Z")
**Oakminster** , **Red Barchetta** , who the fuck cares? I mean _really_? You all seem to be accusing the mods (and **Dex** , since he’s posted in the thread) of issuing a warning for something you don’t believe was severe enough to warrant the consequence. In short, you’re saying that the mods in question are making mountains out of molehills. You don’t seem to realize that, by you beating this dead, dead fucking horse, you’re doing the same thing you’re getting pissed at them for doing. Were they in the wrong? Perhaps. But, as my late father used to say, “two stupids don’t make a smart.” For Og/God’s sake, let it fucking _GO_. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/14 "2011-08-09T10:33:45Z")
I appreciate that \*\*Marley23 \*\*and **C K Dexter Haven** have been the two mod/admin’s spokespeople, but I think this problem would be sorted out rather more quickly if the two people in question spoke for themselves. For example \*\*TubaDiva \*\*said that they would be looking into whether vBulletin allowed polls without posts. Does this, and **Czarcasm** ’s rulings, actually mean that commenting isn’t allowed in polls? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/15 "2011-08-09T10:41:36Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > In short, you’re saying that the mods in question are making mountains out of molehills. You don’t seem to realize that, by you beating this dead, dead fucking horse, you’re doing the same thing you’re getting pissed at them for doing. Not quite. I think they’re saying the mods made an error, or were being inconsistent – this is not quite the same thing as making a mountain out of a molehill. And even if it were, I’m sure the feeling is that now it’s _becoming_ a mountain because it’s a matter of principle which may affect how future warnings are issued. (I’ll admit this whole thing did sound quite whiny to me, but somehow it’s starting to get interesting as it continues…) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/16 "2011-08-09T12:32:57Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > The answer to (2) is that life is unfair. Not exactly. The answer to (2) is that the moderation at the SDMB is unfair. And this is not going to change. > [@Sierra Indigo](#): > > Let’s say I wander in to a poll. I note it’s gotten a bit heated and see a mod note saying “Don’t debate it or I’ll kick y’alls in the asses” > > I want to answer the poll, and want to elaborate my answer a wee bit because I want to put some qualifiers on the answer. I do not post in response to any other poster, I simply put “I voted x because y z” > > Is that still worthy of a warning for disregarding moderator instructions? Does “no debate in this thread” mean you can no longer post any elaboration on the options in the original poll? There’s no way to tell, and if you do get a warning, it’s no big hairy deal. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/17 "2011-08-09T13:35:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not exactly. The answer to (2) is that the moderation at the SDMB is unfair. And this is not going to change. A bleak prospect, to be sure. High time to pull up the tent stakes, pack up the martyr-wagon, and head for gentler terrain. Unless, of course, the constant hand-wringing is part of the fun… _nah!_ Who actually enjoys being a victim? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/18 "2011-08-09T15:20:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not exactly. The answer to (2) is that the moderation at the SDMB is unfair. And this is not going to change. How brave of you to have soldiered on for more than a decade, despite the constant and blatant oppression you have been subjected to. Don’t know where you get the will to carry on, really. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/19 "2011-08-09T16:22:55Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The answer to (1) is that you were warned for failure to heed moderator instructions. Except he doesn’t think he failed to heed moderator instructions. He thinks he clarified some point that was made previously, but didn’t continue debating the topic. It boils down to lack of clarity what it means to “debate” something, an unclear moderator instruction, and frankly what seems like a bad call that should have been admitted rather than defended. > [@](#): > > The answer to (2) is that life is unfair. It’s probably the same reason that I got a speeding ticket when others who had been passing me, didn’t. That’s a really piss-poor “answer”. Sure, life is unfair, but the answer to the speeding question is that cops aren’t everywhere all the time, can’t see everyone speeding. But everyone’s post in that thread is still visible, and still a violation of the moderator instruction. So, if the first few warranted a Warning, then the others also warrant a Warning. If the later posters don’t warrant a Warning, then why do the first set? The answer seems to be that after a few Warnings dropped and it kept happening, the decision was made to just close the thread rather than warn everyone who kept violating the instruction. The warnings that had already been given were let stand because they were deemed to be violations of the mod instructions, but rather than dropping a bunch more warnings, it was decided to just let the others go. And that’s where the unfairness arises. Plus, the disagreement over what constitutes “debating the issue” in a poll thread. > [@](#): > > The answer to your unasked question: It’s only a warning. It’s not a whipping, or a fine, or being put in the public stocks. It’s the moderator saying, “Stop it!” in a voice intended to attract attention (as opposed to a mere mod note.) It’s a reminder to stop a behavior. In short: it’s NOT a big hairy deal. I agree that one Warning on a person’s record is not that big a deal. The big deal seems to be a) the moderator’s decisions in that thread shut down not only argument, but all discussion, even stating opinions in more than just a poll vote. That seems incongruent with the intent of the message board to have discussions. You know how we won’t allow polls in GD specifically because we want people to “use their words”? Well, now we’re telling people not to use their words. Seems messed up. b) uneven moderation seems to imply there was recognition that the moderation was a bad decision, and shouldn’t have been made in the first place. And if it shouldn’t have been made in the first place, then it seems rather tacky to let warnings stand that shouldn’t have been given in the first place. Look, I think people are way overreacting to the issues, and creating way too much drama. I don’t think the temper tantrums some of these posters are throwing are helpful at all. But I do think there are some legitimate questions about the moderation of that thread and the warnings given. I think we have some real issues to work out, including [ul] [li]Do we want commentless polls?[/li][li]How should we handle IMHO threads/polls where debates break out? (I’m not talking GD territory, I’m talking debates about the topic in question, even if it is repeating content in another discussion elsewhere.)[/li][li]If the method of responding to polls includes a considerable number of people who don’t read before posting, how do we address moderation that is given in the thread to at least give them an indication?[/li][/ul]We’ve started threads on a couple of those issues, but some people are more wrapped up in their anger than in trying to actually answer those questions. It’s getting in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964/20 "2011-08-09T17:50:03Z")
**NineToTheSkyMember, Mijin, Shodan \*\* and \*\* Irishman** all clarified my post better than I could have. **C K Dexter Haven** gave a response without actually addressing the questions. And those non-answers didn’t even come from the requested addressed parties, of whom I would expect would be most capable of explaining the actions in question. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-wont-tubadiva-or-czarscasm-address-these-2-questions/591964.md?page=2)