Why won't you assholes conserve!

The BBQ Pit
21

In my neighborhood (Sacramento, California) all the neighbors immediately extinguished lights when the first power warnings were issued. Outdoor lights that were left on all night for safety are now off, so we’ve sacrificed some sense of security as a response to the crisis. Because I’m frugal (well, cheap), I had my heat on only three times this winter: Xmas Eve, Xmas Day and New Year’s Day, because I had visitors and not enough sweaters and blankets to go around.

The problem isn’t the average consumer (although there are stubborn or thoughtless folks out there) but businesses who have left their decorative and unnecessary lights on, office buildings that leave it all on after everyone but the security guard has gone home, that sort of thing.

Wrote a letter to the Sacramento Bee stating pretty nearly the same thing and named the businesses in my area that refused to comply with voluntary reduction in usage. The Bee published my letter but omitted the business names.

There is supposed to be a task force that will notify businesses that do not comply but so far I’ve seen no change in the most prominent violators.

The whole mess stems from a deregulation plan from 1995 or 96 that was voted upon by the legislature. Due to term limits these people are no longer accountable for their actions and the newer legislature is ill-equipped to handle what has occured.

In Sacramento the voters opted to close down a nuclear power plant that was built only a few years earlier. Part of the reason is because the two of the three military bases that closed or are closing left such toxic waste that nothing can be constructed and can the land be used until someone figures out what to do with it. Who’s to say that usage of a nuclear power plant won’t reap the same consequences? Remember Erin Brokovich? What she unearthed in Southern California was a product of PG&E, the same folks that have, IMHO, caused the problems we are now facing.

We have a president who is still pissed that California went for Gore, who is hell-bent on destroying the environment that we in the Western states seek to protect, and who has remained mute on our struggle. We have a governor (unfortunately, I voted for him but the alternative was worse) who is so ill-equipped to deal with this situation that no one knows how the hell he plans to negotiate us out of this.

We ordinary folk are complying and because we’re an outspoken lot, don’t hesitate to tell our neighbors, local businesses and co-workers to reduce usage. Let’s put the blame squarely where it belongs, with the money-grubbing utility companies.

22

One point that a lot of people seem to be missing is that there isn’t a big battery somewhere that’s saving the energy you save at night for peak time the next day.

It’s not the 50 auto dealerships running their lights all night, or your idiot neighbor who leaves the TV on all night that are causing the problem. They truly are only hurting themselves, with bigger bills.

It’s the idiot who leaves everything on all day, and the simple fact that just about everyone gets up for work at about the same time, turns on the TV or radio, a heatlamp in the bathroom, a hairdryer, a heater or AC, and then makes coffee or cooks breakfast. It’s the office buildings that turn on every light they can (even if they are flourescent) and keep their cube farms at a cozy 65 degress to keep the computers that nobody ever turns off from cooking themselves to death.

Turning off the lights at night won’t solve the problem. It’s not even a band-aid. The task force is a lovely PR stunt to make everybody feel better about the government doing something about the problem, to take the focus away from the fact that they aren’t doing anything to actually fix the problem.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating running everything all night just because it doesn’t help, I’m saying that we need to be careful when it does count. We need to be creative and willing to sweat a little bit this summer.

I just took a job in an office that keeps half of the lights off in the cube farms (it’s actually easier to see the computer anyway, I prefer it) and they put motion detectors in the conference rooms. When you walk in, the light turns on, and if nobody moves for a few minutes, the lights turn off. It made for an amusing interview, because the lights did go off a couple of times, but the guy interviewing me just waved his hand in the air and it flipped back on. Solutions like that will help when it counts.

23

I think slackergirl is the first person who has made the point that it’s not so much using electrical equipment as WHEN you use it that is the most important factor.

The crisis (other than financial) that California is facing is not so much an energy crisis, but a demand crisis. The problem is that all the suppliers are not capable of supplying enough energy at times when all users are calling for energy use. Thus, the blackouts are being done to take some of the users out of the loop so that there is enough to go around at times of peak demand.

Since most schools, businesses, and other commercial consumers of electricity are closed overnight, or operating on a shortened schedule, the demand at night is considerably lower than during the day, and the suppliers should have no trouble supplying users. (Actually, this is when they WANT you to use energy. From their standpoint, since they have to have built the power plants to be able to supply peak demand, they would prefer for people to be using energy at that level around the clock, since that’s what brings in the dollars.)

Turning your lights, AC, etc. off overnight WILL save energy, lower your power bills, and lessen your effect on the environment. It will not do a darned thing to affect the demand crisis, however.

24

This is true. For the things you can put off using electricity for, you should (i.e. Do laundry, or run the dishwasher at night, etc.) But the reason I think they’re telling businesses to conserve at night is to make the rate hike less shocking and painful for them. When businesses have to pay more for electricity it results in an increased cost to us depending on what their product is. If you can convince them to use less electricity ANYTIME it’s going to make it easier on everyone in the long run.

25

I just hope that California really isn’t the bellwether of the country. Oh, and thank goodness for TVA!

26

The time most likely to have the rolling blackouts is not during the day, although this happens, but from about 4-8 p. m., after people start coming home. Yes, the businesses use a lot of energy. A large office may use a lot more energy than a home, but on a per-person basis, is more energy efficient.

Take a hypothetical office with thirty people working there, on a warm day. The air conditioners, computers, lights, etc. do draw a lot of electricity, but it is for a large group of people. When these thirty people go home and turn on their airconditioners, or turn down the thermostat, instead of one industrial aircon, you now have 30 home aircon, drawing a lot more power. Plus the tv’s, lights, mostly incandescant, compared to the typical fluorescent in a business, and high draw appliances such as washers, driers, and stoves. I know that there will be overlap, with more than one person in most homes, but the general principle still applies; it is more efficient to cool and light people in groups of 30, as in an office or classroom, than in groups of 3-4, as in a home.

Add to this the businesses that are open late, (fast food, movie rental, etc.) and you have a combination that is most likely to cause the highest demand. And if there was a crisis before these peak hours, it will get worse during them. And yes, those businesses that leave their lights and computers on do have a direct, albeit small, effect on the problem, at least for the hours between when the business closes and the peak demand times end.

And, finally, leaving the lights on all the time does contribute to the energy crisis, even at night when there is no demand crisis. Part of the problem is that generators are not getting paid, so they cannot pay the companies that sell them the natural gas and oil that is burned in their plants to drive the turbines that produce the electricity. Plants that cannot get fuel cannot generate electricity. And lights left on all night consume electricity, which in turn consumes the fuel needed to generate it. Wasting electricity at any time of the day does add to the crisis.

But what irritates me the most are those people I have seen on the news who say they don’t believe there is any crisis, that it is a hoax, or that they will continue using as much electricity as they want despite the crisis. One genius actually claimed he didn’t believe there had been any rolling blackouts, because he hadn’t been hit with them. Isaac Asimov once called this leaky boat thinking: Yes, the boat might be leaking, but it’s not my problem because the leak is on the other side of the boat, and I’m not wet yet. (He was referring to those who claim that overpopulation is not a problem for the United States and European countries because it’s other countries, mainly in Asia, that are overpopulated, but I think the same reasoning applies here).

27

Javaman is right. No matter how much we conserve here, our infrastructure is simply not powerful or large enough to maintain a decent standard of living, since we have too d**n many people here, with more coming in all the time.
And it’s not about race; it’s a matter of finite space.
California cannot continue to absorb everyone who crosses its borders, legally or illegally.

28

I would like to apologize to Californians re my post of a few days ago (where I drunkenly posted I have no sympathy for Californians about your current power crisis)

That post was basically overgeneralized bullshit.

While I still believe NIMBYism is a contributing factor, it was wrong of me to broadly slam all Cali people.

Pardon me for not slinking back in here until now.

Again, my apologies.

29

for being gracious enough to apologize and thereby showing that even in the Pit we can be civilized. Moderators, put him down for a gold star.

30

Klaatu, you did a very honorable thing. I appreciate people like you. (I’m serious.) :slight_smile:

And now, I must get off this thing, as we are in a Stage 2 alert here in Calif. and I have been sucking up energy via this computer for two hours.
(and running the RealPlayer too—oops!)

31

You’re full of poop. First, the main reason California’s per-capita energy use is so low is that the populated areas (SF, LA, SD) have extremely mild weather compared to the rest of the country. Correct for that and I’m guessing that our energy use is right up there with everyone else’s. Second, California’s population growth is not ENTIRELY due to immigration, because I moved here from Ohio two years ago. That’s not immigration.

Some idiot in my neighborhood has Easter lights on his house. Easter lights! If justice were to be done to this meathead, we’d have dunked him in a tank of boiling tar. But this is California, so we live and let live. That, in a nutshell, is why we have an energy crisis. Joe wants to run his hot tub, so we need lots of electricity. But Jane doesn’t want a power plant built near her house, so we have to buy power from outside the state at extortionary prices. Until someone persuades either Joe or Jane that this cannot go on forever, we’ll have rolling blackouts.

32

Conservation. What could be more inherently Conservative?

Republicans, run straight out and buy those fluorescent bulbs that Phillips, a Dutch company, makes for you. Try thinking for a moment why GE doesn’t.

And yo! You Democrats? Turn off the fucking lava lamps!

33

Thank you, klaatu, for the apology. It is truly appreciated.

34

If Davis tries to declare eminent domain, California will truly be doomed. And I’m not talking about just power here either.

Come on, think about what you are saying. It’s bad enough that they are paying 200% of the value for transmission assets.

35

In central Wisconsin last year the utilities installed five super cooled coils. They can store the electricity when the demand is lower, and release it when demand is higher. They found this to be cost effective for now.