# Why would a presumably "tame" tiger suddenly attack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154 "2003-10-07T21:27:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yuki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@Yuki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yuki)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/21 "2003-10-08T05:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tonbo0422 \* > **I know, I know, “Ask the tiger.” But one would think that after being born with a human “father” as the only one it has ever known, and then raised and trained by humans, specifically Roy Horn, what would prompt an animal that has done hundreds of shows doing the same thing, day in, day out, no surprises, to suddenly try to kill–not love bite–its owner?** I just want to point out that this wasn’t a tiger who had been doing the act hundreds of times. It was its first time on stage and if I read correctly, it was trying to leave when Roy kept urging it back onto stage. At one point it bit him on the arm and Roy started hitting it with a water bottle on the nose, then it lunged. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/22 "2003-10-08T07:26:33Z")
No, sorry. You’ve read the first reports on the situation. Go to Yahoo news or something, and you’ll find mentioned repeatedly that the hotel admits that S and R just said that to heighten tension. That tiger was a long way from its first performance. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/23 "2003-10-08T08:05:30Z")
At what age might a tiger become demented? The above explanations seem plausible, but I also wonder about neurological changes. The tiger was 7, right? ---
**Author:** ![Daylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@Daylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/24 "2003-10-08T10:28:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*There are no tame tigers. I don’t think there is an animal handler alive that would disagree with that statement. Anyone who bets their life that there is such a beast is liable to end up as tiger poo. \*\* Exactly. There’s no such thing as a tame tiger…or tame any other type of wild animal. The only animal I would consider tame are cows. Anything you can hunt with a hammer qualifies as tame in my book. Daylon ---
**Author:** ![tonbo0422](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@tonbo0422](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonbo0422)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/25 "2003-10-08T12:27:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daylon \* > **Anything you can hunt with a hammer qualifies as tame in my book.** Heh . . . then I guess cockroaches must be tame 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/26 "2003-10-08T15:39:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Borgia \* > \*\*None of the posts has addressed the _real_ issue: The rampant homophobia within the Great Cat community. \*\* Roy is gay? I’m so embarrassed, but that thought never occurred before to me. Probably because I can go months, even years, without thinking about Siegfried and Roy at all. ---
**Author:** ![tonbo0422](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@tonbo0422](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonbo0422)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/27 "2003-10-08T15:53:43Z")
Roy _was_ gay. This may have scared him straight 😃 Here’s the best link for the latest news on the affaire du tigre dingue: [http://www.reviewjournal.com](http://www.reviewjournal.com) ---
**Author:** ![tonbo0422](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@tonbo0422](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonbo0422)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/28 "2003-10-08T15:58:53Z")
"On Tuesday, Yuman reiterated that there are no plans to destroy the tiger, Montecore. “‘His future is bright,’ Yuman said. ‘A tiger is a tiger. We understand.’” His future is bright? What’s first on the agenda, Larry King? Maybe Dateline NBC next (take out Maria Shriver with a paw swipe.) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/29 "2003-10-08T16:01:36Z")
My loving fluffy kitty (back when he was still alive) was very affectionate. He loved me, he wanted cuddling all the time, he would lick my face (this is typical carnivore submissive behavior). But occasionally he’d swat my hand with his claws, or nip me. He didn’t want to kill me, I don’t know if he really even wanted to hurt me. He just reacted instinctively to some stimuli…maybe he got flea bite and thought it was my fault. Whatever the reason, he would sometimes give me scratches and occasionally break the skin. And this was a loving, tame animal, whose species had been domesticated for thousands of years. Now imagine the exact same friendly kitty, but weighing 500 pounds. His little scratches and nips would be lethal to a puny human like me. One swat with his itty-bitty paws would take your head off. And all it takes is one incident, and you are kitty food. Even if the kitty loved you and didn’t really want to harm you. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/30 "2003-10-08T16:23:55Z")
If you are interested in the interplay between humans and tigers, and also would like to read a very good book (which won the Booker Prize last year), I highly recommend [_Life of Pi_](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0156027321/qid=1065630174/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-5154031-2411261?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), by Yann Martel. A short set up: Young Pi, the son of a zoo-keeper, is shipwrecked and set adrift on a 26 foot life boat, together with a 450 pound bengal tiger. His only hope is to gain and maintain the “alpha male” position within the boat. An amazing book. ---
**Author:** ![wnorthr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@wnorthr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wnorthr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/31 "2003-10-08T17:44:09Z")
I was in a cage with a lion one time. She was still a cub, I suppose, but was still taller than me by about a foot when on her hind legs and she must have weighed a couple of hundred pounds. At one point she had the muscle of my upper arm in her mouth and seemed to be ripping it off the bone (at least that’s how it felt). I told her owner and he told me to hit her on the nose. So I did. 'tap tap tap". “No”, he said, “hit her”. So he hauls off and clocks this lion. Lion lets me go and drops down on all fours. There seemed to be no other reaction from the lion and it didn’t seem to hurt her at all. When I read about Roy it said that he tapped the tiger on the nose with a microphone. It may be that Roy, at that point, didn’t percieve any real danger and was unwilling to hit the tiger as hard as is necessary to let him know he meant business. I can understand that as it would probably freak out the audience seeing what, to them, would be a solid punch. The cat may have then either thought that it was playtime or time to assert dominance since Roy, in his eyes failed to act dominantly. This is all just a guess on my part. I’m no zoologist. And maybe none too bright either getting into a cage with a lion. ---
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/32 "2003-10-08T18:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* > In fact, not only am I not surprised, I’m wondering-where there previous attacks by tigers? \*\* “Since 1990, there have been at least 151 dangerous incidents involving big cats in 34 states. Two children have lost their lives, and more than 40 others have lost limbs or suffered other injuries. Eleven adults have been killed, and scores have been mauled.” [source](http://www.peta.org/news/NewsItem.asp?id=3005) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/33 "2003-10-08T19:38:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tonbo0422 \* > **His future is bright? What’s first on the agenda, Larry King?** Celine Dion. Please please please please… ---
**Author:** ![tonbo0422](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@tonbo0422](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonbo0422)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/34 "2003-10-08T21:40:28Z")
Siegfried Crumbaker IS on Larry King tonight (Oct. 8). Gotta catch that. Celine shouldn’t be too difficult–she’s a couple of blocks up the Strip. Just hold a scrap of her clothing up to Montecore’s nose and whisper “You GO, boy!” He’ll run like the wind. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/35 "2003-10-08T22:08:46Z")
**tonbo** ’s link has a story with Siegfried’s answer to the OP’s question, in fact … > [@](#): > > Fischbacher said he has spent the past few days crying and praying for his longtime friend. He also said he felt for the tiger, who “reacted instinctively and was completely confused because Roy slipped.” > > Fischbacher said Roy noticed something was off with the tiger, so he departed from the routine and moved between the tiger and the audience. It was then that Roy stumbled, Fischbacher said. As usual in a case of severe meltdown in a normally flawless process, it looks like there was a cascade of failures. Something in the environment or in the audience made the tiger nervous; Roy, trying to compensate and calm the animal down, left the standard routine and then stumbled, which turned ‘nervous’ into ‘panicky’. ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/36 "2003-10-08T22:33:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ilsa\_Lund \* > \*\*How much domestication does it take to breed the “wild” out of an animal? Surely if they had been housepets for 100 years, the offspring’d be at least a little tame. Seems like if you did it long enough, you’d end up eventually with “house-tigers” \*\* An animal is an animal is an animal. Haven’t you ever been scratched or nipped by a “friendly” house cat/dog/rabbit? Well, take that little scratch or nip and magnify it by \*500. You’ll be lucky to make to the ER! Anyway, doesn’t this attack on Roy even things up a little? You know, after those soldiers killing that Bengal Tiger in the Baghdad zoo? ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/37 "2003-10-08T23:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wnorthr \* > \*\*I was in a cage with a lion one time. She was still a cub, I suppose, but was still taller than me by about a foot when on her hind legs and she must have weighed a couple of hundred pounds. > At one point she had the muscle of my upper arm in her mouth and seemed to be ripping it off the bone (at least that’s how it felt). I told her owner and he told me to hit her on the nose. So I did. 'tap tap tap". “No”, he said, “hit her”. So he hauls off and clocks this lion. Lion lets me go and drops down on all fours. There seemed to be no other reaction from the lion and it didn’t seem to hurt her at all. > \*\* IIRC, a swat on the nose is a normal feline “domination” signal - cats in the wild do it to each other (or the Big Cat does to anyone who acts up), housecats do it to each other, and it’s often used when training your pet cat - a very gentle tap of the fingertip on the nose when kitty starts chewing on your sleeve or whatever along with a verbal “No”. Scale “very gentle tap” up from 10 pound housecat to 300 pound lion and I can see where a punch would be necessary. I spoke to a dog trainer who had worked with exotic animals for many years, including tigers. After elephants the tigers scared him the most - no matter how much they look like big cuddly cats and no matter that they’ve eaten treats from your hand, they are very large, dangerous, hard-wired predators. When he was walking around the outside of the enclosure a tiger would be constantly stalking him on the inside (he said that the sight of a 600 pound tiger “hiding” behind a few tall weeds would have been funny if it wasn’t an animal that could eat him). When he had to go in to leave food and treats (such as an entire horse’s head), even though Fluffy was in a seperate enclosure he got in, left the goodies and got out ASAP, looking all around him the entire time. As far as Roy is concerned I ditto the other posts - there is no such thing as a tame tiger. There are simply tigers that haven’t decided to eat you yet. I love 'em and think that they’re majestic animals but no way am I getting that close to one. ---
**Author:** ![tonbo0422](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@tonbo0422](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonbo0422)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/38 "2003-10-09T00:42:28Z")
One of the most disturbing dreams I have ever had was that there was a tiger in my apartment–in fact, in the room between me and the front door. This was your real, panicking, awaking-bolt-upright-with-sweat dream. I have never been so scared in my life. A ten-foot moat is as close as I ever want to come to a tiger. Note to self: re-read “Man-eaters of Kumaon” by Jim Corbett. Follow up with “Man-eating Leopards of Rudraprayag” by same. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/39 "2003-10-09T00:53:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tonbo0422 \* > Note to self: re-read “Man-eaters of Kumaon” by Jim Corbett. Follow up with “Man-eating Leopards of Rudraprayag” by same. The first is probably the finest book ever written about wild tigers. The second title (though it’s just “Leopard” - one was plenty in this case) gets my vote as the greatest hunting story of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154/40 "2003-10-09T01:24:42Z")
Some of Jim Corbett’s points about tigers: Their speed, strength and skill at hunting are far greater than most people realize. Their usual method of killing prey is to dislocate the neck. They don’t eat people except when, due to injury or age, they are unable to kill normal prey. Healthy wild tigers are very little threat to humans (they _are_ a threat to livestock, which probably look to tigers like fat, slow, stupid versions of their normal prey). I’m not sure what this says about a caged tiger’s behavior. Such a life is obviously radically different from what a tiger experiences in the wild. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-a-presumably-tame-tiger-suddenly-attack/206154.md?page=3)