# Why would anyone oppose requiring an ID to vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937 "2004-09-24T20:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/1 "2004-09-24T20:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Supervisor Bill Horn, who championed the proposal, said the measures would prevent fraud and protect the integrity of elections. > > “I don’t think it’s draconian to pull out your ID,” he said. “I think it’s important to know that those who are voting have the right to vote.” > > The panel also voted to draft a letter in support of a bill requiring voters to show photo identifications when voting in federal elections. > > Opponents argued that the proposal would discourage minorities from voting. > > “We feel that this requirement will have a chilling effect and will prevent individuals who have a lawful right to vote from voting,” said San Diego NAACP President Douglas Oden. Why would a requirement for ID affect minorities more than non-minorities? Wouldn’t this just be a way to preent fraud? [http://www.kfmb.com/topstory29457.html](http://www.kfmb.com/topstory29457.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/2 "2004-09-24T21:17:00Z")
**KVLD:** _Why would a requirement for ID affect minorities more than non-minorities?_ Because minorities are less likely to own a photo ID. (Correlation of race with socioeconomic status and all that jazz.) _Wouldn’t this just be a way to preent fraud?_ That’s the idea. But is this sort of voter fraud really a problem? In the other current thread touching on voter fraud (in re voter intimidation tactics), the fraud referred to seemed to be of the form of people with legitimate IDs registering to vote somewhere that they weren’t entitled to vote (being non-citizens or legal residents of another state). But showing up at the polls pretending to be somebody else in order to steal that person’s vote? Does this actually happen to any significant extent? And if it doesn’t, do we really need to implement a system to guard against it, especially one that discriminates against, e.g., non-drivers and poorer people in general? ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/3 "2004-09-24T21:42:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Because minorities are less likely to own a photo ID. (Correlation of race with socioeconomic status and all that jazz.) Cite that poor people are less likely to have an ID? And then a cite that poor people that are registered to vote are less likely to have an ID have someone with more money who is registered to vote. I don’t anyone who doesn’t have an ID. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/4 "2004-09-24T21:54:28Z")
**KVLD:** _Cite that poor people are less likely to have an ID?_ [Sure.](http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen04/news/articles/art2002-142.htm) (But wouldn’t it be obvious that the people most likely to be unable to afford to pay for a driver’s license or other photo ID would be the poor?) ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/5 "2004-09-24T23:07:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **KVLD:** _Cite that poor people are less likely to have an ID?_ > > [Sure.](http://www.legis.state.wi.us/senate/sen04/news/articles/art2002-142.htm) How can people write such idiotic articles? > [@](#): > > “There are lots of people who can’t get a driver’s license,” he said. “If you’re from out of state, if you’re paralyzed, if you have a physical problem, if you’re blind, if you’re incapacitated in some way, if you don’t want to drive.” > > … about 70 people, some in wheelchairs, carrying colorful signs with slogans such as, “I don’t drive but I want to vote” Can’t you just get an ID, and not a driver’s license? > [@](#): > > They are less likely to have a state-issued driver’s license or ID, which can cost about $30 I think very few people can’t afford $30, and for those, why not make an exception and waive the $30 fee for an ID? > [@](#): > > and often requires proof of residency, which some of them do not have Hmmm, if they don’t have a proof of residency, should they be voting? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/6 "2004-09-24T23:13:33Z")
> [@](#): > > They are less likely to have a state-issued driver’s license or ID, which can cost about $30 and often requires proof of residency, which some of them do not have. Don’t a lot of states require residency, making those without, kinda struck anyway? I also find it hard to believe that some poor people do not, and cannot afford some sort of picture ID. Just because they’re poor doesn’t mean that they don’t own a home, or an apartment, which, somewhere along the lines would require a photo ID. Who said it has to be a $30 dollar drivers license? What about a library card? They’re are many cheaper alternatives. Regardless of what I say, I am against this idea all together anyway. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/7 "2004-09-24T23:13:53Z")
[QUOTE=Polerius] How can people write such idiotic articles? Can’t you just get an ID, and not a driver’s license? > [@](#): > > I think very few people can’t afford $30, and for those, why not make an exception and waive the $30 fee for an ID? I’d consider this a socialist suggestion, if it weren’t for the following: > [@](#): > > And you will make those decisions personally, at a polling station, and decide yes or no? Or alternatively, how should we make the decision about who can afford $30 out of the alread-minimal amount he/she recieves? > [@](#): > > Hmmm, if they don’t have a proof of residency, should they be voting? ‘Proof of residency’ != ‘Eligible to vote’. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/8 "2004-09-25T01:49:37Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Cite that poor people are less likely to have an ID? And then a cite that poor people that are registered to vote are less likely to have an ID have someone with more money who is registered to vote. I don’t anyone who doesn’t have an ID. I’ll gather you don’t know many homeless people? My experiences with homeless people is not having an ID is hardly uncommon. Given homeless people who do vote (which I admit is statistically uncommon) tend to favor tax the wealthy and transfer it to the poor economic policies, this will favor certain candidates and parties if the homeless can’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/9 "2004-09-25T01:57:19Z")
If you’re concerned about the same person trying to vote twice, some countries solve that problem by requiring you to dip your thumb in indelible purple ink when you vote. No reason we couldn’t do that here. If you’re concerned about a given person trying to vote only once, but at a polling station or in a jurisdiction other than that in which he or she is resident – how often does that actually happen? Cite? If you’re concerned about a person who is not eligible to vote at all, because of felony conviction or non-citizenship, trying to vote – I say more power to 'em! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/10 "2004-09-25T02:01:33Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Cite that poor people are less likely to have an ID? And then a cite that poor people that are registered to vote are less likely to have an ID have someone with more money who is registered to vote. I don’t anyone who doesn’t have an ID. You are asking for a cite and your justification is you “don’t know anyone who doesn’t have an ID”? Don’t you think that statistical sample might be a little small? ---
**Author:** ![WhammyAthame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9e8a1a/32.png) [@WhammyAthame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhammyAthame)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/11 "2004-09-25T02:02:05Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > I’ll gather you don’t know many homeless people? My experiences with homeless people is not having an ID is hardly uncommon. Given homeless people who do vote (which I admit is statistically uncommon) tend to favor tax the wealthy and transfer it to the poor economic policies, this will favor certain candidates and parties if the homeless can’t vote. How can you vote if you don’t have an address? How would you know where to go? As far as I know you can’t just walk in and say I’m here to vote… otherwise we could all go from place to place and vote multiple times. I don’t care if I have to show ID, I’ve always been surprised that I haven’t had to. How do they know I am who I say I am? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/12 "2004-09-25T02:08:37Z")
> [@WhammyAthame](#): > > How can you vote if you don’t have an address? How would you know where to go? As far as I know you can’t just walk in and say I’m here to vote… otherwise we could all go from place to place and vote multiple times. > I don’t care if I have to show ID, I’ve always been surprised that I haven’t had to. How do they know I am who I say I am? IIRC, there is at least one state that allows registration on the day of the election. As for not having an address, many homeless people while not having a permanent address will have friends who will accept mail for them and hand it to them whenever they come by. And, would you disagree that someone who has been homeless and out on the streets in Michigan for the last year is not a resident of Michigan eligible to vote? I’d say if they are a US citizen, under that scenario unquestionably they have the right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![testride](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@testride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/testride)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/13 "2004-09-25T05:35:19Z")
What is the likelihood that an adult wouldn’t have SOME kind of official ID? If someone is too poor to have a driver’s license or a non-driver ID ($20 in my state), isn’t he probably going to have a card from a welfare or food stamp program? Even if his only income is welfare, how does he cash his check? If his money goes straight to a bank via direct deposit, he had to provide ID to open the account and to get an ATM card. If he has any kind of legal job, he almost certainly had to provide ID when he was hired. And when he registered to vote in the first place he very likely had to show ID. The only people who wouldn’t have ID are the ones who get paid under the table and live in the cash-only underground economy. If a person isn’t enough of a participant in the society to have an ID do we really want him voting on public issues? Obviously various kinds of voting restrictions have been used in the past to discriminate unjustly against minorities and the poor. “Literacy tests” were notorious. But is it entirely wrong to have \*some \* minimum requirements for a person to take on the responsibility of voting? Having to prove that you are who you say and that you live in the district where you are voting just doesn’t seem so terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/14 "2004-09-25T05:45:30Z")
Some people, as a matter of principle, oppose the idea of any form of government mandated identification cards. Requiring people to obtain such a card in order to vote would be seen as a violation of that principle. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/15 "2004-09-25T05:48:39Z")
> [@](#): > > If a person isn’t enough of a participant in the society to have an ID do we really want him voting on public issues? There’s plenty of people out there I don’t want to vote and lack of proper ID is seldom the criteria. But it’s a democracy and I shouldn’t get to pick who gets to participate. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/16 "2004-09-25T06:29:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > \*\*KVLD:\*\*Because minorities are less likely to own a photo ID. (Correlation of race with socioeconomic status and all that jazz.) That doesn’t fly here in CA where the legislature keeps passing a bill for illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses (fortunately it keeps getting vetoed). A topic which San Diego (where the news item is from) is particularly sensitive to. Additionally, a CA ID or SSN is required in CA to register to vote. So how is it discriminitory to require people to bring that ID with them? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/17 "2004-09-25T08:41:04Z")
**testride:** _What is the likelihood that an adult wouldn’t have SOME kind of official ID? If someone is too poor to have a driver’s license or a non-driver ID ($20 in my state), isn’t he probably going to have a card from a welfare or food stamp program?_ Not necessarily. Here’s what [one report]([www.nlchp.org/content/pubs/](http://www.nlchp.org/content/pubs/) Terror’s%20Other%20Victims.pdf ) (pdf) from Virginia has to say about it: > [@](#): > > [G]etting a photo ID requires producing documents such as a health insurance card, a life insurance policy, a social services card, or a U.S. passport—which homeless people frequently do not have. Obtaining an ID also requires proof of residency, such as a utility bill, deed or mortgage, or receipt for a property tax payment. Virtually by definition, homeless people tend not to have such documents. **emarkp:** _That doesn’t fly here in CA where the legislature keeps passing a bill for illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses_ What does legislation about driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants (who are not legally eligible to vote anyway) have to do with my contention that minorities are statistically less likely than non-minorities to have a photo ID? Most minorities are not illegal immigrants, you know. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/18 "2004-09-25T17:13:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What does legislation about driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants (who are not legally eligible to vote anyway) With motor voter, it would be pretty easy for illegal immigrants to vote. It’s one of the concerns we have about the issue. Right now a drivers license functions not only as ID but de facto proof of citizenship. > [@](#): > > Most minorities are not illegal immigrants, you know. Well I’m not an idiot. You might note that pretty much all illegal immigrants are minorities. Also, illegal immigrants are typically restricted to manual labor or day-labor type jobs. Since their employers don’t give a rip about the law, minimum wage is pretty much ignored. That makes them some of the poorest workers in the country. Yet there’s a movement to get them CA drivers licenses anyway. The apologists for this inane policy tell us to have sympathy for the poor illegal immigrant who is afraid of driving because he can’t get a license and if he has a license he might get insurance. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/19 "2004-09-25T20:34:39Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Also, illegal immigrants are typically restricted to manual labor or day-labor type jobs. Since their employers don’t give a rip about the law, minimum wage is pretty much ignored. That makes them some of the poorest workers in the country. Yet there’s a movement to get them CA drivers licenses anyway. The apologists for this inane policy tell us to have sympathy for the poor illegal immigrant who is afraid of driving because he can’t get a license and if he has a license he might get insurance. And that line of argument is mistaken because . . . ? I see a curious nonsequitur here: Illegal immigrants are some of the poorest workers in the country . . . therefore, they should not be allowed to obtain driver’s licenses. What’s the step in the middle? Also – it would be very easy to issue non-citizens driver’s licenses that specify their non-citizen status somewhere on the license – so they couldn’t use those licenses as ID for voting, assuming ID is required, and assuming non-citizens voting constitutes some kind of real problem somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937/20 "2004-09-25T20:57:45Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Some people, as a matter of principle, oppose the idea of any form of government mandated identification cards. Requiring people to obtain such a card in order to vote would be seen as a violation of that principle. Assume, for the sake of argument, that 90% of the population believed in this principle and did not have ID’s. How would you conduct an election? How would you know who was voting and where they were voting? How could you know that there wasn’t massive voter fraud (multiple votings)? Someone said that even Blockbuster asks for ID before you rent a movie, why is it so outrageous to show ID before voting? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-anyone-oppose-requiring-an-id-to-vote/265937.md?page=2)