# Why would Congress make Trump's tax returns public? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 20, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859 "2022-12-20T18:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/101 "2022-12-21T17:50:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Could I trouble you provide chapter and verse to support this assertion, please? The first amendment allows folks to say or print whatever they want, with certain exceptions. The first amendment applies to members of the House Ways and Means Committee, doesn’t it? So unless there’s a specific exception in the law that **prevents** them from exercising free speech in this case, “chapter and verse” consists of the first amendment. If you believe such an exception exists, perhaps you could provide chapter and verse? We can set the law aside for a moment and admit that, even if it’s not illegal for the House to release the tax returns of a (now) private citizen, doing so upends decades of custom. I wonder why anyone would decide to upend decades of custom when it comes to Trump’s returns? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/102 "2022-12-21T17:58:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So unless there’s a specific exception in the law that **prevents** them from exercising free speech in this case, “chapter and verse” consists of the first amendment. There actually is. As I cited above, there’s a [US code](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103) that restricts the disclosure of tax information. Tax returns are public records but, naturally, there’s an interest in controlling such disclosures. That said, there are exceptions carved out for certain parties. Like the House Ways and Means Committee for example, to report findings to the full House, by which the information would be publicly disclosed as well. And the current disclosure is being done under the aegis of that exception. There’s even a bit of precedent for it. As mentioned above, some of Nixon’s records were disclosed via this route, though in his case, it’s very possible he’d have disclosed anyway had he been asked. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/103 "2022-12-21T18:11:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > Could I trouble you provide chapter and verse to support this assertion, please? > > The first amendment allows folks to say or print whatever they want, with certain exceptions. The first amendment applies to members of the House Ways and Means Committee, doesn’t it? So unless there’s a specific exception in the law that **prevents** them from exercising free speech in this case, “chapter and verse” consists of the first amendment. I was actually thinking “chapter and verse” (in a metaphorical sense) such as the [Privacy Act of 1974, as amended, 5 U.S.C. § 552a](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2018-title5/pdf/USCODE-2018-title5-partI-chap5-subchapII-sec552a.pdf). Putting it down to the free speech protections guaranteed by the First Amendment strikes me as sophistry, which a.), I don’t really expect from you, **L\_H\_o\_D** ; and b.), may be the first time I’ve ever used the word “sophistry” in a sentence (knowing me, I’m probably using it wrong, so my reluctance to use it in the past was probably based in good, sound judgement on my part). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/104 "2022-12-21T18:19:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I wonder why anyone would decide to upend decades of custom when it comes to Trump’s returns? I would suggest because the America-hating Fuckstick himself decided to upend decades of custom when it comes to his returns FIRST. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/105 "2022-12-21T19:05:14Z")
With respect, the idea behind “chapter and **verse** ” is that you don’t link to a 2-column, 8-point-font, 14-page document. The “verse” is the specific passage that you think applies. I am not a constitutional scholar, and while I appreciate these links, > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > As I cited above, there’s a [US code](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103) that restricts the disclosure of tax information. and > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > [Privacy Act of 1974, as amended, 5 U.S.C. § 552a](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2018-title5/pdf/USCODE-2018-title5-partI-chap5-subchapII-sec552a.pdf) I am unable to give them the full analysis _in toto_ that they require. The former cite gives great latitude to congressional committees, but I’m not clear on how the statute specifically interacts with the committees, the first amendment, and Trump’s returns. The latter is such a terribly vague link that I’m not going to bother with it: give the verse if you’re interested. As a note: > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Putting it down to the free speech protections guaranteed by the First Amendment strikes me as sophistry, which a.), I don’t really expect from you, **L\_H\_o\_D** You may wish to drop such arguments, as you’ll not find them persuasive. Overall, it is incumbent on folks who think the disclosure IS illegal to show why–not by citing an entire body of law, but by citing the specific passages that are violated by disclosure, **and** by explaining why the exceptions granted to Congress by the statute don’t apply. Failing such specific cites, and given the first amendment’s broad protections of speech–and **especially** given the years that this process has wended its way through the courts already and the prevalence of constitutional attorneys in the process–I’m inclined to think that the committee knows exactly what the hell they’re up to and are not committing tax crimes for the lulz. They are not, after all, Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/106 "2022-12-21T19:07:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I would suggest because the America-hating Fuckstick himself decided to upend decades of custom when it comes to his returns FIRST. Which is precisely my point. If the committee is acting illegally, then sure, build a time machine and go back in time and present those arguments before it was too late to do so. But if they’re just violating custom, Trump’s got no leg to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/107 "2022-12-21T19:15:06Z")
your last paragraph is why many people told trump it was not a good idea to run for president. that he and his business could not stand up to the scrutiny. they were correct. his “charitable org.” is gone and his company has been found to be a criminal enterprize. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/108 "2022-12-21T19:35:32Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > many people told trump it was not a good idea to run for president. that he and his business could not stand up to the scrutiny. I’d say he’s winning that gamble so far. For four years, he was the most famous person in the world, and attention is possibly worth even more than money to him. And he’s not doing too bad with money, either. His years as president opened up unprecedented grift possibilities that he’s milking for every penny. Unless he’s convicted, imprisoned and stripped of all his assets, it will forever look like running for president was a very good idea indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/109 "2022-12-21T19:53:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The only reason for them to not release Trump’s returns are partisan politics… > [@Aspenglow](#): > > …remember who oversaw them during the Trump years: Steve Mnuchin. > [@bobot](#): > > The “why” there is easy: To shelter Trump. > (Mnuchin, not even grinning yet somehow displaying both rows of his teeth, “I’m a Trump guy.”) > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’ll take a wild guess and say Steve Mnuchin made the decision and was influenced by a stout fellow with blond hair and orange skin. I’ll never understand how there’s been nowhere near enough pushback on [Mnuchin](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/08/trump-tax-returns-must-go-congress-mnuchin-defying-federal-law-column/1131899001/) and his blatant obstructionism. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/110 "2022-12-21T20:06:00Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If nothing is illegal/unlawful/unethical in the returns how does releasing them in an improper way harm Trump? “If you havent done anything wrong why are you bothered with the police tapping your phone, following you children, and reading your mail?” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/111 "2022-12-21T20:15:52Z")
When you’re President guess what happens? Why, authorities ‘(tap) your phone, follow your children, and read your mail’! It’s part and parcel with the job. If you are legitimately not comfortable with this happening, don’t be President! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/112 "2022-12-21T20:40:46Z")
People arguing for the right of privacy re: the one elected federal position which, by law, has absolutely none. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/113 "2022-12-21T20:41:12Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > “If you havent done anything wrong why are you bothered with the police tapping your phone, following you children, and reading your mail?” 1. I tell you that I’ll release all my phone conversations. 2. There’s good reason for the public to think that releasing my phone conversations will reveal information critical to the stability of our nation. 3. Everyone else in my position has released their phone conversations. 4. I give a patently bullshit series of excuses for not releasing my phone conversations. 5. The government releases them in a way that’s nontraditional (what @crowmanyclouds called “improper”) but legal. If I haven’t done anything wrong, releasing these conversations that I said I’d release won’t harm me. ---
**Author:** ![plankter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ba0ec/32.png) [@plankter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plankter)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/114 "2022-12-21T20:54:35Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Anyway, here’s hoping the Caponing of Trump begins. 😃 I assume you refer to Al Capone being nabbed for tax evasion and not to [caponization](https://chickenandchicksinfo.com/how-to-caponize-a-rooster/), if only because the cock is too old by now. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/115 "2022-12-21T22:28:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If I haven’t done anything wrong, releasing these conversations that I said I’d release won’t harm me. Yup, the ‘phone was already tapped, the children were already followed, and the mail was already read’ by people with the legal authority to not only do it but to act on what they found. Congress is the one harming itself if they release the information in an illegal/unlawful/unethical/nontraditional and there is nothing there. Trump is only actually hurt if there is a _there_ there. Given that Trump has said that he’d release the information himself but can’t (for reasons we now know were fabricated) how can he be harmed by Congress doing the thing he claims to have wanted to do all along for him? Unless they aren’t the greatest returns :wipes tears from eyes: that the IRS has ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/116 "2022-12-21T23:45:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The Constitution gave Congress investigative powers for a reason. The Constitution did not give Congress investigative powers. As the reason – probably – no reason. I don’t think they were against legislative investigations. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/117 "2022-12-21T23:58:07Z")
So some years Trump, “billionaire”, pays zero dollars of federal income tax. Other years he pays $750. Congress made the returns public because Trump is a lying bastard. They’ve also released to the public that his income taxes were absolutely NOT under audit, like the lying bastard claimed. They further revealed that the standard audit of the president’s taxes was also not done. Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way, but exposing a lying bastard is something that does not keep me up at night. I quite appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/118 "2022-12-22T00:43:19Z")
And the reason that he doesn’t want his taxes release to the public is not what we will make of them, or even what the media will make of them, but what the banks will say when they find that they don’t match the returns that he gave them. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/119 "2022-12-22T03:50:01Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > The Constitution did not give Congress investigative powers. If there are any imied powers at all, there is the idea of congressional oversight. Its a key check on executive power. Having told the executive to execute something, they have to be able to monitor what was or wasn’t done ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859/120 "2022-12-22T07:29:24Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Given that Trump has said that he’d release the information himself but can’t (for reasons we now know were fabricated) how can he be harmed by Congress doing the thing he claims to have wanted to do all along for him? Yup. I marched in the Women’s March on Washington in January 2017 with a sign specifically about wanting to see Trump’s tax returns. It is normal procedure for every Presidential candidate to make his returns public, and he said he would reveal them if he got elected. And then made up lying excuses for why he didn’t. I am still really, really tired of the expectation that we all just have to put up with Donald Trump disregarding and misrepresenting facts and standard protocols whenever he feels like it, for whatever shady self-serving reasons he might have, and there’s nothing we can do about it. Demanding to see his tax returns made public, as he promised, is a comparatively very small and overdue form of holding Trump to normal levels of Presidential accountability, but it’s a start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-congress-make-trumps-tax-returns-public/976859.md?page=7)