# Why would Hell have to be such a bad place? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073 "2002-11-09T22:47:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/1 "2002-11-09T22:47:40Z")
I was thinking earlier… If there is a Hell, why would it be such a bad place? If it’s run by Satan, wouldn’t he treat people who have gone against his enemy, God, well? Why would he torture them? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/2 "2002-11-09T23:34:40Z")
There must be as many varieties of hell as there is of heaven. Each religion has some form of these places. However, when you leave your body behind and discover you are really a spiritual being, you will find that fire will not burn you or water make you wet. So hell can’t punsh you very much if you can’t feel it. Getting back to reality, the only real hell is separation from God which we people accomplish by not loving ourselves and others. What about Satan? Very overated guy, first if satan exists he would have been created by God, which He didn’t do. The story goes that an angel got the big-head and tried to replace God, well since we are all created as angels, he had as much of a chance replacing God as you do. Satan then is a fallen angel, so, that means he is no more powerful than you or I unless we give him power through our fear. He can use our fear against us, so the trick is not to fear satan, demons, etc., just keep your focus on learning to love. The more you love, the closer to God you become. Remember Jesus said, when the people were marveling at His miracles, “why do ye marvel, ye can do as I do, and even more.” So, basically, just keep learning to love yourself and others, that will work great. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/3 "2002-11-10T00:33:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monica \* > \*\*I was thinking earlier… > > If there is a Hell, why would it be such a bad place? If it’s run by Satan, wouldn’t he treat people who have gone against his enemy, God, well? Why would he torture them? \*\* The Devil being evil, he would enjoy hurting his own followers. Think of it as S. being the biggest, meanest prisoner in the jail, and the other convicts are his bitches :eek: But seriously… there are many followers of various religions that will tell you Hell, to be “hell”, MUST be, _axiomatically_, “such a bad place”, because it’s the place from which all forms of goodness have been excluded. Satan liking it or not has nothing to do with it. Of course, the _REAL_ key thing to remember, whether you are a believer or not, is that Dante’s, Bosch’s and Milton’s characterizations of Hell and Satan, which are what the Western world generally imagines when bringing up the concepts, are _NOT_ canonical doctrine of the major Christian churches, they’re artistic license. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/4 "2002-11-10T00:39:06Z")
Run by Satan? That may be the popular cartoon view of hell, but I don’t think you’ll find it in the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/5 "2002-11-10T00:40:42Z")
> [@](#): > > If there is a Hell, why would it be such a bad place? If it’s run by Satan, wouldn’t he treat people who have gone against his enemy, God, well? Why would he torture them? If you are going by the Bible as your source, Satan doesn’t “run” hell. He’s just another inmate in this prison with a sentence of infinity years. And unlike the United States, God doesn’t have to obey the 8th amendment rule against cruel and unusual punishment, which means most of the world is going to this decidedly unpleasant place, if Jack Chick and his ilk are correct. But remember, God loves you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/6 "2002-11-10T00:45:36Z")
That’s God who threaten us with the fires of hell. That’s him who decide who should went there and what should happen to the victim. Hell can’t be ruled by Satan, nor he can make decision on the fate of us moirtals. Or else he would be an independant being, as powerful as God. So Hell is such a bad place because God wants it to be so… Apart from the mythology, Hell has to be a really, really awful place in order to be a real deterrent, especially since people can’t see it with their own eyes, hence have to rely on their imagination. Also, life was harsh in older times, so you had to threaten people with something really frightening. And finally, there are plenty of people who enjoy thinking about (or reading about, etc…) cruelty, torture, etc…(yes, I mean you who read with fascination the gory details about the last murder commited by some serial killer) . So, plenty of people had plenty of time to spice up Hell with their own sadistic fantaisies… ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/7 "2002-11-10T01:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monica \* > \*\*I was thinking earlier… > > If there is a Hell, why would it be such a bad place? If it’s run by Satan, wouldn’t he treat people who have gone against his enemy, God, well? Why would he torture them? \*\* The off the cuff, I’m not really thinking, but instead parotting answer - Satan isn’t running hell. He’s being punished there. He really has no say in what happens to souls in hell, he’s too busy being in pain, and he was built to withstand much more than humans are - so if it hurts him, imagine what it will do to you. This message brought by various Sunday School teachers of amarinth’s over the years. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/8 "2002-11-10T03:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur **in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb**. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” – [Revelation 14:9-11](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+14:9-11&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on), **emphasis** added > [@](#): > > And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. – [Revelation 20:10](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV+20:10&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) This of course represents specifically the Christian view of Hell. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/9 "2002-11-10T05:11:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\* > > What about Satan? Very overated guy, first if satan exists he would have been created by God, which He didn’t do. > > The story goes that an angel got the big-head and tried to replace God, well since we are all created as angels, he had as much of a chance replacing God as you do. Satan then is a fallen angel, so, that means he is no more powerful than you or I unless we give him power through our fear. > \*\* If this is supposed to be a bibical reference, you lost me. I was always under the impression that Angels and Humans were entirely different, angels being spiritual and predating humans, and humans being both spiritual and physical(Remember, we are talking in bibical context here). And I think the story goes that Satan (or Lucifier ) was the Angel of Light, the most beatiful one, and decided he was tired of playing second fiddle to the big guy, so started a revolution with the help of some of the others, and got his little ass kicked (Your boss has the power of God(literally) and made everything, so somehow you think you can beat him? What were you thinking). The ones that rebelled are fallen angels, or Demons, and apparently can possess bodies, but can’t do much more then influence actions otherwise. I may be wrong, but I have never heard anything that equates humans being angels at one point or another (unless you mean in the symbolic or metaphorical sense). Both seem to be strickly seperate. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/10 "2002-11-10T06:14:52Z")
[This depiction of Hell](http://www.robotwisdom.com/jaj/portrait/poa3.html#strait) in James Joyce’s **Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man** is pretty thorough. Be sure to scroll down to “371” where the relevant section begins ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/11 "2002-11-10T06:29:37Z")
Questions, MEBuckner: Are the Beast and Satan two different guys or ar they one and the same? And do we only get sent to hell if we worship the Beast, or have his mark on us? Or can we get sent to hell for doing bad things? Also, what does the mark of the Beast look like, and how does one obtain it? Re the OP, I’m reminded of Huck Finn: “And then she told me about the bad place and I said I wisht I was there.” ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/12 "2002-11-10T06:54:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\* > The story goes that an angel got the big-head and tried to replace God, well since we are all created as angels, he had as much of a chance replacing God as you do. \*\* I can’t find any references in Christianity that would indicate that human beings are angels. Angels existed before the creation of Adam and Eve. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Satan then is a fallen angel, so, that means he is no more powerful than you or I unless we give him power through our fear. \*\* I suppose beliefs have changed over the years. However in Christianity angels are certainly more powerful then men. When God wanted Soddam and Gammorah destoryed he sent a pair of angels to do the job. They sound a bit tougher then your average joe to me. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Cholo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Cholo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cholo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/13 "2002-11-10T07:04:19Z")
All I know is Jesus Christ preached something like 11 times in the 3 years of his recorded ministry about hell. If HE says it’s to be avoided…that’s good enough for me. I have complete faith in what he said and have NO interest in questioning just how bad it is or is not. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/14 "2002-11-10T07:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hazel \* > Questions, MEBuckner: Are the Beast and Satan two different guys or ar they one and the same? The “Beast”, found in Revelation, is often identified with the concept of “antichrist”, mentioned in the first and second Epistles of John. In the epistles, “antichrist” doesn’t generally seem to refer to one supremely evil figure, but rather to anyone who is against Christ: > [@](#): > > Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. – [2 John 1:7](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=2JOHN+1:7&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) However, there are also some passages in the letters of John which seem to refer to _the_ Antichrist, with a capital “A”: > [@](#): > > Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. – [1 John 2:18](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1JOHN+2:18&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on); see also [1 John 4:3](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1JOHN+4:3&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) The Book of Revelation, whose author identifies himself as “John”, is traditionally considered to be by the same John who wrote those letters which mention “antichrist” and “antichrists”. In Revelation, there are references to “the beast”–well, actually there are a couple of different “beasts”, but let’s not even go there–who rules the world on behalf of “the dragon”. The “dragon” is generally identified as Satan, and as I said, “the beast” is often nowadays identified with _the_ Antichrist. The Antichrist or Beast is in turn seen, I believe, as a sort of Satanic analogue of Christ; a supremely evil man who exercises power on behalf of Satan and oppresses Christianity. (This at any rate is one popular view; understand that Revelation lends itself to a _lot_ of different interpretations, including that whoever wrote it was under the influence of some kind of pharmaceutical; and also that the whole thing is a coded theo-political tract attacking one or another of the Roman Emperors who persecuted the early Christians. Sometimes the whole “Beast” or “Antichrist” thing may also be identified with some institution rather than just an individual; e.g., some other Christian denomination with which one disagrees; the United Nations; and so on.) > [@](#): > > And do we only get sent to hell if we worship the Beast, or have his mark on us? Or can we get sent to hell for doing bad things? The traditional view has been that one can be damned for all sorts of things: > [@](#): > > But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,\* ’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. – [Matthew 5:22](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+5:22&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) > > \*“An Aramaic term of contempt” > [@](#): > > You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. – [Matthew 5:27-30](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=matt+5%3A27-30&NIV_version=yes&language=english) In traditional Christian theology, one is damned for being a sinner; since everyone is a sinner, the only way to escape hell is to accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ and thus be forgiven, but there is lots of disagreement about the finer points of this. > [@](#): > > Also, what does the mark of the Beast look like, and how does one obtain it? This has been the subject of _much_ speculation by those who believe in this sort of thing. Recent candidates for the dreaded mark have included such things as Social Security Numbers and the Universal Produce Code barcodes, and possible new technologies like implanted microchip ID’s. (Lots of pets now have these; I guess Old Nick is going after Fluffy and Fido first.) How one obtains it generally depends on what it is in the first place; generally, there is some sense of people submitting to an authority which is believed to be Satanic or opposed to the Church or true Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/15 "2002-11-10T15:17:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\* > > I can’t find any references in Christianity that would indicate that human beings are angels. Angels existed before the creation of Adam and Eve. > > \*\* Not to disagree, but I am curious. Is there any accounts in the creation other than creating the heavens that that could refer to Angels? Genesis 1:26 is when God created man, nothing mentioned of Angels. King James Version- > [@](#): > > 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth I am assuming that “Our” is refering to the holy trinity. God the father, God the unborn son, and God the Holy spirit. Our first reference is in Genesis 3:24 > [@](#): > > 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Cherubims. Could be anything at this point. The author does not even mention what these Cherubims are. Are they a type of plant that can hold a sword? Or are they a special antique sort of metal gate? Not counting this Cherubim reference (after all, its not mentioned here that Cherubims are Angels), the first reference to Angels is in Genesis 16:7. > [@](#): > > 9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. Apparently heavens come pre-equipped with angels or they don’t need creation. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/16 "2002-11-10T15:20:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Epimetheus \* > \*\* > > the first reference to Angels is in Genesis 16:7. > > \*\* HERE is 16:7, I accidentally quoted 16:9 > [@](#): > > And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/17 "2002-11-10T16:55:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Epimetheus \* > \*\* > Not counting this Cherubim reference (after all, its not mentioned here that Cherubims are Angels), the first reference to Angels is in Genesis 16:7. \*\* Remember, too, that “angel” is the Latin translation of the word in Hebrew that means “messenger” or “thing that goes out”. It’s a functional description, more than a species one. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/18 "2002-11-10T17:08:38Z")
Sorry, I keep forgetting that most people, especially Christians, have no knowledge about the spiritual world. We are all created as “Angels”, light beings, spirit guides, etc., when created all have the same power, usually called a “spark”. we grow from there, the physical world is just one place of learning or school among many. We first are spiritual, then physical. We all start out the same. I know this is not Biblical, but it is real. There are many things true that will not be found in the Bible. There are also many false things in the Bible. The Bible is a tool, like any other tool, can be used for good or evil. It is necessary to think in this life. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/19 "2002-11-10T17:24:00Z")
Probably should say where this information comes from: Spiritual literature or metaphysical writings date back to the beginning of recorded history. It is the largest field of study that I know. All cultures and societies have written about their experiences with the spiritual world. Reading this material will help to understand “the mysteries” surrounding it. Unfortunately many believe it is either superstition or demonic, so they learn nothing. I believe the greatest source today are the writings of “Seth” as recorded by Jane Roberts. I had a near death experience where I learned a lot also. Knowledge is where you look for it, if you don’t look, you won’t find. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073/20 "2002-11-10T18:06:31Z")
Or knowledge is what you want it to be I guess, huh? So I am to believe something just because some “just out of the cave and writing stuff” guy wrote it a long time ago? Knowledge is a building that is slowly built, the foundation may be important, but the top is where the latest work is done. Sorry Lekatt, but when talking about beliefs the only “real” is what you believe. Since there is no evidence for it except for some scribblings by some guy that didn’t even know that stars are other suns, I would have to say that the “realness” of it could be questioned, eh? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-hell-have-to-be-such-a-bad-place/136073.md?page=2)