# Why would I want to be an ambassador? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689 "2014-12-08T19:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/21 "2014-12-09T08:19:59Z")
I’d do it just for the hatching-of-evil-plots fringe benefit while hoping I’m not foiled by the likes of Mel Gibson et al. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/22 "2014-12-09T09:58:55Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > it’s not just attending fancy diners : > [@](#): > > Information gathering, processing, relaying occupy the central part in the life of a diplomat. So, the day begins invariably by the reading of the dispatchs embassies … To which is added reading news agencies dispatches and papers. So an ambassador starts his day by reading a few emails, and the local newspaper. I do that too, while I’m eating breakfast…but I don’t get paid for it. In the OP’s example of the ambassador to Hungary: How many messages does she receive every day? > [@](#): > > Most of the activity of the diplomat then consists in meeting extremely varied interlocutors : ministers, high ranking civil servants, business, university, army, church leaders. Interviews with the local medias are common. And each meeting takes , what ? an hour? And I doubt it you meet all these people on the same day. Today a finance minister, tommorrow a church leader, and on tuesday, an hour with a journalist. How often does the US Ambassador to Hungary meet with a bishop? Or appear on the nightly news? > [@](#): > > The diplomat must then report what he has seen. How many reports does Obama (or the Dept of State) need from the ambassador to Hungary? > [@](#): > > The ambassador must dedicate part of his time to the management of his team. Like any manager, right? > [@](#): > > Then the day often ends with an official dinner Life’s tough. Oh, and don’t forget, diplomats never have to worry about getting a parking ticket. 🙂 Now, me, I’m a jeans and T shirt kind of person, so I wouldn’t want to be Ambassador. I suppose I’m missing out on the good life. But I do have 3 cats…I bet the Hungarian embassy doesn’t 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/23 "2014-12-09T15:37:02Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So an ambassador starts his day by reading a few emails, and the local newspaper. > I do that too, while I’m eating breakfast…but I don’t get paid for it. > In the OP’s example of the ambassador to Hungary: How many messages does she receive every day? There is a ‘read file’ of classified messages that is prepared for the ambo every day. It can get quite thick, as messages from other posts that are relevant to security or other issues are included along with all the crap that comes from Washington. Since these two are unlikely to actually know what is important, somebody will need to point out those messages that need attention. Nobody loves meetings like a bureaucrat does, so there are a lot of those: country team, security, etc., and they can be endless. In the case of these two completely unqualified people, someone will have to translate any relevant local newspaper articles for them. While there will likely be some language training for them, it probably won’t be enough to enable them to read a newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/24 "2014-12-09T17:00:55Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > How many reports does Obama (or the Dept of State) need from the ambassador to Hungary? There is probably a cable written up and sent to the State Department for each important meetings that the ambassador attends. The folks in the State Department want to know what the ambassador is doing and what he/she is hearing, you know. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/25 "2014-12-09T19:22:49Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So an ambassador starts his day by reading a few emails, and the local newspaper. > I do that too, while I’m eating breakfast…but I don’t get paid for it. > In the OP’s example of the ambassador to Hungary: How many messages does she receive every day? > > And each meeting takes , what ? an hour? Yes, a few emails a day on really unimportant topics from really unimportant people, and a meeting with a minister once in a while to briefly write some random agreement in between two cups of tea. Absolutely no work at all involved. And obviously the administration couldn’t care less about the vague opinions the people they randomly send there might have about the local beach resorts. I think the view of ambassadorship people express here is ludicrous. It’s a highly demanding job carrying extremely important responsibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/26 "2014-12-09T20:02:01Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Also, the patronage appointments are as a rule to posts in friendly, safe countries. You send a career FSO to the flashpoints. This just begs the question of why anyone would want a career as an FSO. They’re not going to post you to Canada, or France, or Ireland. No, you’re going to wind up at the consolate in Mudville, Elbonia. Is this sort of service generally a stepping stone to posts in nicer countries, or does the State Department just look out for suckers who’ll put up with serving in Iraq or Sudan or some damn place like that? ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/27 "2014-12-09T20:09:52Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I think the view of ambassadorship people express here is ludicrous. It’s a highly demanding job carrying extremely important responsibilities. If it is so important then why is it frequently given to people with no experience (see above)? Now I agree that being an ambassador to many countries would a very difficult and tireless job that you could not pay me enough to do. I am certain most administrations pick highly qualified and very experienced people to be in those positions. But I would expect that the job in some countries is easy enough that any competent middle manager with a social bent could do it without breaking a sweat. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/28 "2014-12-09T20:30:06Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > This just begs the question of why anyone would want a career as an FSO. They’re not going to post you to Canada, or France, or Ireland. No, you’re going to wind up at the consolate in Mudville, Elbonia. > > Is this sort of service generally a stepping stone to posts in nicer countries, or does the State Department just look out for suckers who’ll put up with serving in Iraq or Sudan or some damn place like that? There are a lot of people who enjoy serving in places that aren’t Paris. In fact, I’ve met some FSOs who preferred to live in a big house with a pool and cheap child care in Elbonia, rather than living in a damp little flat in London with its outrageous cost of living. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/29 "2014-12-09T20:31:59Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > This just begs the question of why anyone would want a career as an FSO. They’re not going to post you to Canada, or France, or Ireland. No, you’re going to wind up at the consolate in Mudville, Elbonia. > > Is this sort of service generally a stepping stone to posts in nicer countries, or does the State Department just look out for suckers who’ll put up with serving in Iraq or Sudan or some damn place like that? There are several hundred FSOs appointed every year. The embassy to Canada likely has a few dozen. An ambassadorship, even to Elbonia, is a crowning career acheivement. From there, you hope to work your way up to Ambassadorship. As a career challenge, somewhere remote and hostile is probably more stimulating than, e.g., Canada. Given that I get to live in air-conditioned government-issued housing, get a travel reimbursement for at least one annual flight home, and that I’m only there for a few years, there are lots of sketchy places I’d pick over Ottawa. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/30 "2014-12-09T20:48:45Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > This just begs the question of why anyone would want a career as an FSO. They’re not going to post you to Canada, or France, or Ireland. No, you’re going to wind up at the consolate in Mudville, Elbonia. > > Is this sort of service generally a stepping stone to posts in nicer countries, or does the State Department just look out for suckers who’ll put up with serving in Iraq or Sudan or some damn place like that? Slots at posts are filled based on needs of the Service to the largest extent. Some are given to cronies by those who control such things in DC. Senior officers can usually grab posts in places like Rome or Paris, but there is a whole cadre of junior officers needed to do the grunt work on the visa line. The problem with western Europe and other nice places to live is that the embassies are a cesspool of political intrigue, backstabbing and ambition. Smart officers find somewhere else to be. Another downside to European posts is precisely the fact that it’s a nice place to live. After work, most people go do their own thing, seeing the sights, dining at nice restaurants, etc. At the ‘crappy’ embassies, Americans tend to hang out with each other and with folks from other western embassies. It makes for a much closer community. We had a tour in Lisbon, and while we loved the city/country, and the ease of travel to places like Madrid and Paris, embassy life was pretty much as described above. I fucking hated my boss and her boss and the appointed ambassador. They were purely political animals intent only on themselves. After Lisbon, we had two tours in Africa and enjoyed them very much. No ties or suits (except for certain reporting officers), and much more relaxed. We still stay in touch with some of the people we served with there. Some FSOs make a career out of places like Africa or South America or other so-called less desirable areas. The housing is often very nice, even for lowly support personnel like we were, and there is often a tax-free differential when in a place like, say, Uganda. We ended up with an additional 45% on top of our regular pay. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/31 "2014-12-09T23:31:38Z")
They mentioned at the end of Argo that those 6 people got other jobs working for the US state dept, but I would guess they probably got sent to safe places like Western Europe. (unless they wanted to go back to less safe places) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/32 "2014-12-10T01:48:28Z")
Picture the poor USAID FSOs who only get “bad” posts! It’s worth noting that for the truly bad posts-- places where you can’t take your family-- the tours are short and there are frequent breaks. You will probably have to do some of them in a career, but they try to space them out with more desirable posts. There are only three reasons why (IMHO) people become FSOs. Either they are true foreign policy geeks, they just enjoy living abroad, or they are attracted to the prestige. Foreign policy geeks, in their various incarnations, eat and breath this stuff. There are plenty of them out there, and for a foreign policy geek, becoming an FSO is roughly equivalent to a computer geek getting a job at Google, or a film geek getting a job at a studio. It is THE place to be. And for foreign policy geeks, it is definitely fulfilling. You get to be knee-deep in this stuff all day long. Depending on what kind of geek you are, you might prefer a less-posh post because it fits your regional or technical interests. An international development focused person would be bored to death in Luxembourg. Some people just like living abroad. It’s fun- you learn a new language, you get involved in strange social circles, you can travel to interesting places easily, and it’s a fun challenge trying to fit in to a new culture. And some people enjoy living abroad in developing countries. You get to be a big fish in a small pond, the cost of living is low, people tend to be friendly and it’s a kick to get to know someplace that isn’t widely understood. For people who enjoy living abroad in developing countries, being an FSO is one of the better games in town. Unlike the other options, it offers a decent salary and some level of security. The other options are working for NGOs or teaching, none of which are well paid. Finally, some people like the prestige. Passing the exam is hard, and just getting through confers prestige. There is a clear heirarchy, and that appeals to prestige-oriented people. You get the black passport. You are in the know on a lot of things. You get to meet lots of people and speak with some authority to them. And in poorer countries, especially, you are a VIP. I can’t really say how well it works out for the power people, as I don’t know many of them, but I know they are there. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/33 "2014-12-10T14:43:21Z")
I wonder if a foreign embassy has ever been the setting for a sit-com. Sounds like it would be rife with possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/34 "2014-12-10T15:03:09Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I wonder if a foreign embassy has ever been the setting for a sit-com. Sounds like it would be rife with possibilities. The embassy in Moscow certainly could have been. The place was a hotbed of illicit sex and wild parties back in the Commie days. I was in and out of there a few times in the 80s and was highly entertained. On my first night there, the wife of one of my colleagues sat down next to me at the bar and told me all about how her husband had slept with somebody, so in retaliation she had sex with a couple of the Marines. There was an informal contest among the wives of some diplomats to see who could sleep with all of the Marines at post during their stay (as related in the book _Moscow Station_). The sexual tension at parties was palpable. A lot of the single (either not married or geographical bachelors) guys had Finnish girlfriends, who were generally willing and available. All of the western embassy folks hung out, and there was a travelling party every weekend from the Marine club to the Kiwi bar to the Brit club to the Aussie pub. **even sven** : that pretty much captures things. I would note that there are two different groups of Foreign Service personnel: the reporting side, which are FSOs and the support side, who were Foreign Service specialists like me. Different pay scales and of course very different jobs and career tracks. My wife was a finance officer and I was a facilities manager. Specialists don’t need to take the Foreign Service exam, but do go through an interview session with a couple of hall-walkers. The background check is pretty rigorous for all employees and can take as long as a couple of years. ALL employees carry a black passport, which can sometimes expedite you through airport security and customs, but not always. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/35 "2014-12-10T20:32:16Z")
Everybody talks about ambassadors, but what about consuls-general? I mean, somebody has to represent the USA in, say, Sydney, or Edinburgh, or Torontoi, just as pretty much every country that has an embassy in Washington also has a consulate in (at least) New York and Los Angeles. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/36 "2014-12-10T23:13:40Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Everybody talks about ambassadors, but what about consuls-general? I mean, somebody has to represent the USA in, say, Sydney, or Edinburgh, or Torontoi, just as pretty much every country that has an embassy in Washington also has a consulate in (at least) New York and Los Angeles. Some embassies have both. Lisbon did. The Consul General in Frankfurt, Germany was a fairly important posting. The embassy was in Bonn in the 80s, and the ambassador there was always worried about the Frankfurt CG having too much authority. Bonn was kind of a backwater, really. Anybody travelling there from the US usually transited Frankfurt, which has a large international airport. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/37 "2014-12-11T02:27:13Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > There are only three reasons why (IMHO) people become FSOs. Either they are true foreign policy geeks, they just enjoy living abroad, or they are attracted to the prestige. For my father’s cousin it was the first two. I hear that when he got the letter that he’d passed the FS entrance exam he had to ask his brother to read it because he had and he wasn’t sure he’d read it right - I’m in? I’m in? I’m IN? One of my uncles wasn’t FSO, since his “international government work” was for our region, but I’m thinking he fits a pattern for what would be a good “out of the FS” pick. Our local government had been getting a lot of requests to send a representative to this or that international meeting (either as part of a national delegation or at lower levels), so they were thinking of getting someone to be Person Who Goes To International Meetings. My uncle’s name was mentioned as a person who liked to travel (he’d been a merchant marine captain), whose wife and children might be ok with him traveling (they were), who spoke about a dozen languages, and who would probably be good both at the actual communication part and at the PR bits (he didn’t murder any morons, so I guess that bit also went ok). ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/38 "2014-12-11T03:22:10Z")
OP should go see a live performance of [_Call Me Madam_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_Me_Madam) (or, failing that, go rent the movie). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/39 "2014-12-11T10:32:45Z")
Has nobody mentioned contacts? As ambassador you meet a vast number of very important people. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689/40 "2014-12-11T16:27:26Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > . It’s a highly demanding job carrying extremely important responsibilities. I’m sure it is, but I’m equally sure in a few cases it’s done by the “deputy” ambassador and half a dozen other professionals who spend their time sock-puppeting a well-connected idiot. If you google for “unqualified ambassadors” now you get lots of whining about Obama, but add a “-obama” and this is the top hit, from the days of Bush Sr. [http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/07/world/friends-as-ambassadors-how-many-is-too-many.html](http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/07/world/friends-as-ambassadors-how-many-is-too-many.html) > [@](#): > > Of 87 ambassadors selected by Mr. Bush in the first nine and a half months of his Administration, 48 are friends or supporters > … > The President has promised to give his friends and supporters no more than one-third of the total number of ambassadorial posts around the world. That would be less than the 40 percent reached at one point by the Reagan Administration but substantially higher than during the Carter years. This bit is rather choice: > [@](#): > > Charles E. Redman, the former State Department spokesman, was sent to Stockholm as envoy, the Swedes were gleeful. ‘‘This is the first time since the early 1960’s that the Ambassador is a career diplomat, which we interpret as a sign that Sweden is important for the United States,’’ a Swedish diplomat said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-i-want-to-be-an-ambassador/706689.md?page=3)