# Why would it be such a bad thing if humans never make it off this rock? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251 "2003-06-02T23:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/21 "2003-06-03T15:01:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Optihut \* > **As it was mentioned in the other thread, with that kind of thinking humanity will get nowhere. Why did Christopher Columbus insist of seeking a sea-route to India? Everyone knows that he’ll only fall off the edge of the earth and besides, we have already got a land route to India, so why bother?** He did it to make money. And no one thought he would fall off the end of the earth, just that he wouldn’t have the supplies to make the distance (of course, they were right if there wasn’t another continent in the way). \*\* > [@](#): > > Space exploration might yield new insights that are useful to achieve those goals, we currently consider “more important”. For example, if it weren’t for satellites in orbit, nobody would have ever discovered the ozone hole. Plus, more accurate weather forecasts are helpful for growing crops and such.\*\* And all that stuff can be done just as easily without sending people to Mars. It’s a waste of money right now. \*\* > [@](#): > > It’s in humanity’s best interest to further space exploration and on a cosmic scale, that’s the only thing that makes earth significant.\*\* Significant to who? Aliens? Sci-fi geeks with low self-esteem? People keep saying space exploration is so important, blah, blah, blah, but no one can come up with a convincing reason why - except for vague shrieks of comets and asteroids and overcrowding, oh my! There’s plenty of room on the planet for everyone and will be for a long time. Especially with new technologies that will give greater access to fresh water, new agricultural techniques, etc. \*\* > [@](#): > > If we were content with staying on earth and just trying to achieve that everyone lives peacefully, fed, content and very long, then earth might as well be a barran rock or a big field of grass for cows to sit on. Without innovation and the will to further expand our frontiers, earth will become a meaningless planet from a more distanced point of view. \*\* From a distanced point of view? Again, are you talking about aliens here? And why is innovation synonomous with space exploration? No one is talking about ending innovation, just not pouring money into some petty, prestige project like a manned-mission to Mars. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/22 "2003-06-03T15:03:06Z")
It is no good expecting to solve the world’s population problem by expanding to the stars- there will never be a method of transport fast enough to deal with an exponentiating population. More likely each colony will start from scratch, with just a trickle coming from elsewhere. the three strategies of terraforming, adptation to existing environments and artificial/robotic intelligence will make it possible for humanity and its descendents to utilise a large proportion of the real estate up there… there will be accidents, mistakes, failures, overpopulation on other worlds perhaps even tyranny and evil. But by diversifying and dissemination the chance that we will become extinct will become vanishingly small- (although we might not recognise ourselves). Oh, and the memory of the United States, and of Ancient Rome, and everything about our past and present- could end up preserved on a million worlds from a quadrillion viewpoints. * * * SF worldbuilding at [http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html](http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/23 "2003-06-03T15:05:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*Well, it just might be economically helpful to develop interstellar space. Near earth factories could prove a great thing. > > As for getting our house in order first … yeah, right! Get a clue! We be humans! Though if we develop an interstellar civilization, we might not be humans. \*\* An interstellar civilization? Right. Near earth factories are not, and won’t be, economically viable now or within the next few hundred years. They would cost too much to build, and shipping raw materials up and bringing them back down would be hugely expensive. Not too mention you’d have all these huge factories with god-knows-what stored on them crashing into the atmosphere every 30 years or so. Just another sci-fi daydream. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/24 "2003-06-03T15:15:44Z")
Sentience is the most rare and precious thing in the universe, IMHO. Life itself I think might not be all that rare, but its entirely possible that we are one of the very few sentient life forms out there. I can think of only one REAL ‘sin’…and thats if we let it die out, don’t fulfill our potential to make sure it grows and spreads as far as is possible. I think the need and desire to explore is ingrained in us…and in the end will drive us outward. I just wish some of the other countries of the world would challenge the US in space again, to jump start our own lethargic space program… But thats just my opinion…I could be wrong. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/25 "2003-06-03T15:32:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*An interstellar civilization? Right. > > Near earth factories are not, and won’t be, economically viable now or within the next few hundred years. They would cost too much to build, and shipping raw materials up and bringing them back down would be hugely expensive. Not too mention you’d have all these huge factories with god-knows-what stored on them crashing into the atmosphere every 30 years or so. > > Just another sci-fi daydream. \*\* All your projections are based on the whimsical notion that our present understanding of science, and our present techologies, will not change and improve. Yours is just another close-minded daydream. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/26 "2003-06-03T15:43:36Z")
Life will, indisputably, end on this planet someday. If it’s not an asteroid impact, it will be the natural dying of the Sun. If you were living in a house which is going to collapse and kill you, and take every sentient being that you’re aware of too, would you stay? If humanity does not leave Earth, it will die out. Yes, it takes a lot of money; but it’s such an important goal (the preservation of the entire species) that it merits it. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/27 "2003-06-03T16:03:36Z")
> [@](#): > > And all that stuff can be done just as easily without sending people to Mars. It’s a waste of money right now. Going into space in the first place was a “waste of money”, yet it led to those inventions and benefits. Yes, it costs money to go to Mars. But if it is affordeable, then it should be done, because nobody knows what possible useful insights can be gained from a Mars mission or Mars terraforming. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/28 "2003-06-03T16:31:08Z")
The best argument I’ve heard is a plea to examine the alternative of not going. We’ve already tried it. This is what it’s like. If we go into space, colonizing, we get to try something new. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/29 "2003-06-03T16:36:31Z")
\>I agree with the OP that we shouldn’t leave earth until we’ve gotten our act together. Saying that we should not pursue space exploration because there are still problems in the world is akin to a parent saying “Don’t eat all your food because there are starving children in the world”: not eating the food will not help one starving child. The amount of NASA funding is currently chicken feed compared to the national budget, and diverting its few billion dollars will not make a significant difference in any major endeavor. In fact, colonizing other planets or the moon may eventually increase food production and alleviate world hunger, since almost all arable land in the world is farmed. Hydroponic agricultural colonies on the moon or on Mars may provide the needed food. Additionally, while eliminating the ills of humanity is an important (though not totally attainable) goal, to say that we must either abandon the space program or give up all hope eliminating these problems is to present a false dichotomy. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/30 "2003-06-03T16:59:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Optihut \* > \*\* Why did Christopher Columbus insist of seeking a sea-route to India? > \*\* CA$H > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Optihut \* > \*\* > Everyone knows that he’ll only fall off the edge of the earth and besides, we have already got a land route to India, so why bother? > \*\* Ancient Greeks knew that the earth was spheroid. The sea route would’ve been quicker, cheaper and have fewer middle men. ---
**Author:** ![InquisitiveIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@InquisitiveIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InquisitiveIdiot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/31 "2003-06-03T17:03:53Z")
I personally feel that humanity needs to preserve life among the stars. After all, what if we are alone? We instinctively need to make sure that something will continue. It’s ingrained in our system. It forms the basis of our religions, and the reason for bearing children. We will ensure that life will continue after our sun goes kaput. However, I’m not saying that it will be humans. There exists enough evidence to suggest that we will never overcome our internal conflicts enough to make a concentrated effort toward the stars. We’d need to dramatically increase our technology, or drastically alter our very nature. Personally, I’m putting my money on robots. ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/32 "2003-06-03T17:22:26Z")
I’ve seen people in this and other threads dismiss the threat of asteroid collisions as sci-fi daydreaming. Can someone explain to me why the “catastrophic mass extinction on earth” reason for colonizing other planets is not valid? It has happened before on this planet. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/33 "2003-06-03T17:36:03Z")
If the earth goes cold, and you accept the premise that we can’t travel as fast as light, how conceivable is it that we can get to some place habitable? Or is everyone counting on that suspended animation thing? ---
**Author:** ![InquisitiveIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@InquisitiveIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InquisitiveIdiot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/34 "2003-06-03T18:02:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Can someone explain to me why the “catastrophic mass extinction on earth” reason for colonizing other planets is not valid? Because our ability to spot asteroids coming in time to react is, I think, pretty good. And a great big hit only happens like once every couple hundred million years, so we’ve probably got a while. > [@](#): > > If the earth goes cold, and you accept the premise that we can’t travel as fast as light, how conceivable is it that we can get to some place habitable? Or is everyone counting on that suspended animation thing? You mean, if something earth statteringly catastrophic happened right now a la “The Core”, would be be able to escape? The answer is no. No, we’d be pretty much screwed. We’d need IMO at least a decade or so just to develop a working habitat large enough to house a breeding population, plus another couple years for the habitat to become self-reliant. Course, if the “the end is near” armageddonites decide to blow up the habitat in the belief that this is the end times then the whole thing is moot anyway. I’m still holding out for robots. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/35 "2003-06-03T18:16:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > \*\*Life will, indisputably, end on this planet someday. If it’s not an asteroid impact, it will be the natural dying of the Sun. If you were living in a house which is going to collapse and kill you, and take every sentient being that you’re aware of too, would you stay? If humanity does not leave Earth, it will die out. Yes, it takes a lot of money; but it’s such an important goal (the preservation of the entire species) that it merits it. \*\* Oh for Pete’s sake. The sun going cold? I think we’ve got a few billion years before we have to worry about that. This is the sort bizarre, panic tone I was talking about. To use your analogy, the house you are living in RIGHT NOW will collapse some day and everything in it will be destroyed! How come you aren’t moving? It’s going to collapse! Answer: It’s not going to collapse in any time soon enough for you to start worrying about it. Same thing with the sun idea. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Evil Captor_ > \*\*All your projections are based on the whimsical notion that our present understanding of science, and our present techologies, will not change and improve. > > Yours is just another close-minded daydream.\*\* Close-minded daydream? You make me laugh. My projections are based on no such thing. Which invention will make it economical to build space factories rather than ones on earth? Transporters? And isn’t just as likely an argument to say that the problems of overcrowding will be solved by new technologies and understanding of science? Of course it is. The difference is that the ability to economically extract enough fresh water for everyone on earth, and develop the transportation system necessary to get it where it needs to go, as well as developing the agricultural techniques to improve food production on the planet are so much easier and realistic to do. A manned mission to Mars and a heavy push towards manned colonization of other planets is a ridiculous waste of money **at this time**. There’s just no need to be worrying about it right now while we have more important things to be worrying about, like trying to get everyone a quality education. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/36 "2003-06-03T18:52:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by InquisitiveIdiot \* > \*\*Because our ability to spot asteroids coming in time to react is, I think, pretty good. And a great big hit only happens like once every couple hundred million years, so we’ve probably got a while. \*\* yeah, right. Stop watching Armegeddon. we watch like 3% of the sky, most of which is done by amateur astronomers. There have been several insistances recently of us noticing killer asteroids after they pass by earth, so if they were going to hit we’ve been dead. plus, what are we going to do, nuke 'em? the one thing you should have learned from Armegeddon was that ain’t going to work (unless it is an itty bitty asteroid), and that assumes we can hit the stupid thing (my money is on swing and a miss). > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Neurotik_ > A manned mission to Mars and a heavy push towards manned colonization of other planets is a ridiculous waste of money at this time. There’s just no need to be worrying about it right now while we have more important things to be worrying about, like trying to get everyone a quality education. We have a crazy fuck with nukes in NK, cowboy bob as prez of the US, and a bunch of other idiots running around blowing stuff up. It became time to colonize other planets when we gained the technology to destroy this one. Survival of the species is the one goal that should be put above all others, costs be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/37 "2003-06-03T19:01:56Z")
> [@](#): > > A manned mission to Mars and a heavy push towards manned colonization of other planets is a ridiculous waste of money at this time. There’s just no need to be worrying about it right now while we have more important things to be worrying about, like trying to get everyone a quality education. The big problem here is that you won’t get an improvement in space travel, if you are unwilling to spend money and actually launch space missions. It was a long and arduous road till automobiles arrived at the state they have right now. This is just an example, look through the history of technology in any field and you are going to see that the first steps are always totally cost inefficient. But once a lot of trial and error is put into a given project, things are bound to improve. Progress and inventions are always more of a growing process than a leap - if you don’t take the first steps and if there isn’t an incentive to further improve things, nothing is going to happen. That is why the frontiers need to be pushed and further expanded, so that one day it won’t be “a ridiculous waste of money at this time.”. As for being able to tackle just one problem at a time: Sorry, getting everyone an education is going to be on the backburner for a long time if it were like that. The hunt for WoMD and other such “important” things will take priority over the education. But as I stated before, problems aren’t on a stack, it’s in fact a necessity to tackle several issues at once. ---
**Author:** ![InquisitiveIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@InquisitiveIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InquisitiveIdiot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/38 "2003-06-03T19:31:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Survival of the species is the one goal that should be put above all others, costs be damned. You don’t seem to have understood what I’ve been saying. Complacent humans get destroyed, robots inherit the universe, and live in peace and harmony. That’s the way it ought to be. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/39 "2003-06-03T19:36:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*Oh for Pete’s sake. The sun going cold? I think we’ve got a few billion years before we have to worry about that. This is the sort bizarre, panic tone I was talking about. > > To use your analogy, the house you are living in RIGHT NOW will collapse some day and everything in it will be destroyed! How come you aren’t moving? It’s going to collapse! > > Answer: It’s not going to collapse in any time soon enough for you to start worrying about it. Same thing with the sun idea. \*\* Yes, it is billions of years down the line, but it will happen eventually. It is unlikely, however, that the Earth will make it to that time unharmed. True, asteroids of the size which can wipe out all life on Earth are [very rare indeed](http://spaceguard.ias.rm.cnr.it/NScience/neo/neo-when/impact-num.htm)(1 in 100,000 - 1million years), but the problem is that this is just a _probability_. Apparently, ‘it is impossible to calculate for a single NEO the exact evolution of its orbit,’ (from the linked site); the predictions are based on statistics. And when the stakes are as high as the survival of the human race, even odds of one in 100,000 are significant. The sceptics in this thread are right in that at this time we don’t have the technology for interstellar travel, and it will take a very long time to develop it. However, that actually adds to the argument that we should start preparing now: if it’s going to take at least a couple of hundred years of research and technological progress for us to have any chance of travelling to a habitable planet, then even if we find out about a 5km asteroid impact 50 years in advance, it will be too late. Unless we start developing the technology now, we won’t have a chance of survival after an asteroid impact. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251/40 "2003-06-03T19:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > \*\*If humanity does not leave Earth, it will die out. Yes, it takes a lot of money; but it’s such an important goal (the preservation of the entire species) that it merits it. \*\* That is the _question_, not the answer; why is ‘preservation of the species’ so damned important, what does it matter if we’re just _gone_ instead? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-it-be-such-a-bad-thing-if-humans-never-make-it-off-this-rock/179251.md?page=3)