Why would peaceful protesting be of any use against Trump and MAGA?

Politics & Elections
21

I’ve been pondering this myself. MLK’s nonviolent resistance worked because:

  1. The protesters were willing to let themselves get bloodied up and arrested.
  2. This was reported in the press, in print, photos, and TV.
  3. The people who saw these images were shocked.
  4. They were shocked enough to vote for change in the next election.

What worries me is that some or all of those variables may not be present at the moment.

I see some protesting, but not many people ready to become examples of violent treatment. The stakes today aren’t just getting bitten by a police dog or whacked by a truncheon, you could end up in a secret prison in El Salvador.

The violence will be shared in some media, but not in all the media where it would make the difference. We lack a “consensus” media nowadays, where everyone was watching the same footage and could discuss it, even if they came to different conclusions. There are so many fragmented sources that we’re mostly not all getting the same information. And AI suspicion has created a good deal of skepticism that what we’re seeing is real.

There’s no longer a majority of people in this country who would see people of color getting beaten on TV and be shocked and disgusted. In decades past, non-Southerners would look at these images and be horrified, but now MAGA has made inroads into northern states and suburban areas. Plus, people are more willing than ever to misbelieve footage and images that they see. Just the suspicion of bias and selective editing is enough, and that’s before we even get to the problems posed by AI.

As for #4, the fate of free and fair elections is more in doubt that it’s ever been. The vote for change will need to be overwhelming enough to overcome the accusations of rigging, as well as the actual rigging that seems likely to happen.

I’m not suggesting that protest is ineffective and nobody should do it, but this time around, it’s going to take more than getting mauled by a police dog on the front page of the news paper, and moreover I’m not seeing many people who are even willing to take that kind of physical risk (yet).

22

It’s a very big country! But the map of planned protests is VERY impressive.

I’ve heard the “3.5% of the population” number figured a few different ways. But “10 million” seems like a common target.

To your excellent list, add: heads of corporations. They have to think about the population as a whole because (for the most part) they need customers. Having a big chunk of the population mad-as-hell over the current direction of the government is not an irrelevancy to them—they will notice.

And these are the big donors. The regime will notice if the big donors start closing their checkbooks.

23

In a sense, the only reason voting for change worked is because we (very ironically) got lucky. To start with, the progress made WRT civil rights didn’t occur as a result of voting for change in the next election. It occurred before the 1968 election, under the current at the time administration of LBJ. Then we got lucky because Richard Nixon, despite being a crook and not being a liberal, was progressive. I don’t think we can count on that kind of luck again.

24

If you wanted to encapsulate the fast food, instant gratification, “Mummy I want a donut now”, spoiled brat Karen’s of the USA’s insular attention span, that post would be a good starting point.

You are a mere 9 months into the term of a legitimately elected democratic administration, albeit with disturbingly tendencies, even malice. They aren’t doing all things the way you like? Sometimes the dragon wins. The collective you put them there and it’s not like their polls are in single digits. It’s not like they aren’t enacting their manifesto (Project 2025). You have 4 years of these maroons, whose actions have adversely affected all your global allies before the 45/47 cronies break their oath of office, as they would see it.

Am sure your norther neighbours appreciate your erstwhile approach, “Trump invades Canada :man_shrugging:, what can you do?”

Consider those who peacefully protested, under severe repression, against authoritarian regimes for years before the steel wall broke. The Mothers of Plaza de Mayo as a starter. Or even on a profoundly more benign level the handful of protesters outside my local representives office who haven’t had a pollie of their ilk since Federation 125 years ago.

And for the inefficacious “peaceful protests”, you have two alternatives.

  1. Acquiescence
  2. Violent protest
25

I wouldn’t be too sure about that. The constitution is not a Law of Physics….

26

That’s one reason why I think this technique of massive numbers of linked smaller protests may be useful. A whole lot more people will see them with their own eyes; and in many cases, especially in small towns, recognize some of their neighbors. It’s more difficult to convince people ‘these were all violent mobs’ when they saw their aunt or librarian out there waving an American flag in one hand and a No Kings sign in the other.

— and that’s why they need to be nonviolent and even nondisruptive. Partly so we can get the aunt and the librarian and the person who owns the corner shop and wants it to stay in business out there. And partly to make it harder to present all protests as out of control rioting. Which they’ll try to do anyway; but let’s not make it easy for them.

27

Trump, himself, doesn’t do anything. He just tells others to do things. And most of the people he tells don’t do things, either: They just tell yet others. Eventually, though, down the chain of command, someone does do something. A clerk makes a deposit in a bank account, or refrains from doing so. A jailer unlocks a door, or leaves it locked. A soldier points a gun at someone and pulls the trigger, or doesn’t. And in a lot of those cases, one of those actions, the one that Trump ordered, is illegal.

That clerk, that jailer, that soldier, are the people we’re trying to get through to, not Trump himself.

28

Very much this.

29

Uh, the next “No Kings” protest is coming from the organizers of the previous one. The buildup is happening as Robert Reich points out: when Republicans in town hall meetings are shown to ignore their constituents, many others (even a significant number of Republicans) then notice the ongoing con. As others point out, one should pressure the current rubber stamps in congress to do their duty.

As for the upcoming “No Kings” protests:

Robert DeNiro points out:

The original No Kings protest was 250 years ago. Americans decided they didn’t want to live under the rule of King George III. They declared their independence and fought a bloody war for democracy. We’ve had two and a half centuries of democracy since then. Often challenging, sometimes messy, always essential. And we fought in two world wars to preserve it.

Now we have a would be king who wants to take it away. King Donald. (Fuck) that. We’re rising up again. This time nonviolently raising our voices to declare No Kings. I’m Robert Deniro, asking you to stand up and be counted in the nationwide No Kings protest on October 18th.

30

I read not too long ago that things start happening when at least 3.5% of the population starts participating in protests. Examples given included the Philippines’ People Power that toppled the elder Marcos, and some Arab Spring protests.

OOps, ninja’d.

31

No, that’s not the primary idea. It’s to bring like-minded people together and make them aware that they are not alone in their beliefs.

32

Somebody keeps showing up at ICE facilities to protest despite ICE’s proclivity for firing pepper balls at protestors.

33

There is also another aspect to this, peaceful protests of the size we are currently seeing are not going to change any regime policies.

But they can actually stop ICE victimising people

Witnesses said after the warning, several neighbors showed up and formed a human chain outside the church to guide parishioners home

34

No it isn’t. It’s to spread awareness, get people engaged and energized, and have cameras present if an ICE goon cracks a grandma with a baton.

35

Dunno how this got repeated

36

Don’t take the bait. Trumpists want nothing better than an “insurrection” to quell. Do not play into their war plan.

Take a page from Portland and the anti-Ice demonstrations. Absurdity and humiliation (eg, point and laugh) are the way to go. Butt humping frogs are the way to go!!!

Show there is opposition, and give no excuse for violent reprisal. Then showcase the hell out of ICE pepper balling a minister praying in the head, or that radical leftist antifa portland is a buncha old hippies in furry costumes.

37

My friend has been trying to get me to protest this Saturday. I’m legitimately scared to do it. Trump is going after progressive non-profits as secret terrorist organizations and my loooong history of progressive activism makes me feel particularly vulnerable right now. He’s also publicly characterized the No Kings protest as a terrorist event. Because of my social anxiety, I’m also afraid of traffic, not finding a place to park, and socializing in general. To make it worse, I have to show up late. What you’ve characterized as couch-potato is less accurate than overworked, chronically ill, neurotic, and terrified at the prospect of my special needs child going without a mother, but hey, it’s easy to cast aspersions when you’re not the one taking the risk.

The other day over supper, my son asked for me to read him the Bill of Rights and explain what every amendment meant. (I do not remember how we got there.)

He’s too young to understand what’s happening right now, but in the end we went through all 27 amendments together, and I explained every one as best as I could. And I told him how important they are.

I’ve been on the fence all week for various reasons, mostly fear. But as I told my husband, it doesn’t get less risky from here. Only more so. So I can’t sit around waiting for it to feel safer. And the fact that it doesn’t feel safe just underscores how bad it would be to sit and do nothing. I do not think the issue is that people are lazy. I think the issue is that people are terrified. We have never been here before.

Any doubt I had about whether I should go vanished when I read the OPs cynical self-serving narrative. Believing that there’s nothing you can do is very convenient because then you don’t have to take any personal risk. You can just hang out and hope they don’t come for you. That is a very real and very human response - I have had and still have that response - but we’ve got to get past it.

What it comes down to is that I don’t know how best to respond to an administration flouting the constitution than to openly exercise those same constitutional rights. He’s trying to take way my right to peaceably assemble. If it made no difference to Trump’s ability to exert his will, he wouldn’t be going after it! So I’m going to go assemble.

How can I say to my son, “This is important” and then not exercise that right at such a critical time in our nation’s history?

If you’ll allow me to wax poetic about my grad school days, I recall reading Faces at the Bottom of the Well by Civil Rights attorney Derrick Bell. It’s a sort of collection of philosophical stories about institutional racism. At some point the author recognizes that racism is not a thing that will ever be solved. We will never live in a time without racism. But that’s not the point. The point, Bell said, is that liberation lies in the struggle itself.

That stuck with me then, and it’s still with me. There’s this broader battle against tyranny, and that matters, but it may or may not be hopeless. What’s just as important to some of us is this internal battle. It’s how we liberate ourselves.

Per The Decemberists,

When we die
We will die
With our arms unbound

This is why
This is why we fight
Come hell

38

So well said–thank you for your entire post.

That’s right, and details of how carefully and thoughtfully they are planning this are very heartening.

The fact is that the No Kings organizers have worked hard to try to ensure that the events are peaceful. This statement is featured on the No Kings website: “A core principle behind all No Kings events is a commitment to nonviolent action. We expect all participants to seek to de-escalate any potential confrontation with those who disagree with our values and to act lawfully at these events.” The organizers have also gone out of their way to make No Kings non-sectarian.

(My bolding.) From (I know it doesn’t look like it from the title, but scroll down to Bill Kristol’s piece) :

39

Everybody has to judge for themselves how much risk to take, and some areas are certainly more risky than others. I’m not going to judge anybody for being too scared to show up.

But as you say, if not enough people protest against masked police dragging people off with no due process, it’s going to get a lot scarier.

Thank you for deciding to come out.

40

For clarification, I’m not arguing we should do nothing. Rather, I am of the view - (in as careful a way as I can, since speech isn’t necessarily safe these days) - that since peaceful protesting isn’t going to work, then only……well, methods that aren’t mere protest, are likely to work. Not advocating for violence, but rather, saying that there need to be methods used that exert actual true obstruction and leverage.