# Why would Russian need a word for "the seller of dead cats"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 2, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421 "2005-10-02T04:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/21 "2005-10-02T17:20:12Z")
_Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates_ by Tom Robbins has a character who knows the word for vagina in many languages. He says that Vietnamese has two words for it, depending on whether a man is going in, or a baby is coming out. As a feminist, I find it offensive that the assumption is the vagina exists only for other people’s use, never mind the woman who owns it. But as a beatnik, I find the irreverent humor amusing, and in the course of the novel the guy learns to be less male chauvinist. I looked it up in a Vietnamese dictionary. I found two terms: _am vat_ and _am ho_. Maybe Robbins gave accurate information, I can’t tell. Anyone know Vietnamese? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/22 "2005-10-02T18:15:09Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > The one I have always loved, although not just one word, is the French “_les mots de l’escalier._” Literally “the words of the staircase.” Meaning the things you think of later that you wish you had said during the argument. Actually, it’s “l’esprit d’escalier” (wit of staircase). My prefered is still the portuguese “saudade” (besides, I also find that the sound of the word conjures its overal meaning), that I will let to be translated by somebody clearly understanding what it refers to. It’s a specific feeling of melancholy. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/23 "2005-10-02T18:52:50Z")
It’s not just words that have no translation, either. In a country like the US, where rugged individualism is the norm, addressing your female sibling as “Sister” sounds oddly formal instead of affectionate. (Although I guess “Sis” might be an acceptable substitute.) And don’t even get me started about idioms. One of my pipe dreams is to build a complete Chinese - English / English - Chinese idiom dictionary, but I still can’t figure out how to explain the large majority of them into English. (As an easy example, there’s an idiom that translates literally as “the frog at the bottom of the well”, meaning a person whose lack of experience makes him narrow-minded. What would be an equivalent English idiom for that?) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/24 "2005-10-02T18:57:00Z")
In Yorkshire we might call that person a ‘know nowt’. ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/25 "2005-10-02T19:55:38Z")
> [@dotchan](#): > > (As an easy example, there’s an idiom that translates literally as “the frog at the bottom of the well”, meaning a person whose lack of experience makes him narrow-minded. What would be an equivalent English idiom for that?) “Wearing blinders,” perhaps? It gets the narrow-mindedness across much more than the inexperience part, though. Hm, that is tricky. There are plenty of idioms in English for being inexperienced and plenty for being narrow-minded, but I can’t think of one that indicates both. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/26 "2005-10-03T03:26:22Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Exactly so. Benjamin Zimmer on [Language Log](http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002500.html) has an excellent article showing up the inaccuracies in the Tingo piece. How recursive, that language log blog has a link to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/27 "2005-10-03T05:02:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Skimmed any stones across water lately? In Dutch, you’d be plimpplamppletteren. So the Dutch get credit for using a term two syllables longer than the English equivalent? “Skipping stones” is a perfectly good term for that, if you can get over the fact that it happens to have a space in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/28 "2005-10-03T05:25:52Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > that’s a neat example–one word in German for an entire sentence in English. > > But on the other hand–try this: > “the feeling of amazement when I finally understood and figured out something that had been unclear for years” > In English, it only takes 2 words: " lightbulb moment". You can do it in one. Epiphany. ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/29 "2005-10-03T05:27:36Z")
> [@dotchan](#): > > (As an easy example, there’s an idiom that translates literally as “the frog at the bottom of the well”, meaning a person whose lack of experience makes him narrow-minded. What would be an equivalent English idiom for that?) A newbie? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/30 "2005-10-03T05:38:33Z")
> [@Catalyst](#): > > “Wearing blinders,” perhaps? It gets the narrow-mindedness across much more than the inexperience part, though. > > Hm, that is tricky. There are plenty of idioms in English for being inexperienced and plenty for being narrow-minded, but I can’t think of one that indicates both. Provincial, insular? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/31 "2005-10-03T07:20:27Z")
> [@](#): > > You know when you laugh so hard one side of your abdomen hurts? Of course you do. But what’s the word for it? No? > > The Japanese neatly call it katahara itai. This is inaccurate. It’s an idiomatic expression. My dictionary defines it as > [@](#): > > be ridiculous； be absurd； be laughable My Japanese colleagues say that they rarely use this expression. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/32 "2005-10-03T07:48:47Z")
Dunno about dead cats, but if this [eBay sale](http://cgi.ebay.com/Hand-Knit-Men-s-SOCKS-WOOL-DOG-100_W0QQitemZ8339013973QQcategoryZ11511QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is any indication, I can see at least some of the logic behind needing that sort of phrase. [sub]Thanks to **Shirley Ujest** for this gem.[/sub] Robin ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/33 "2005-10-03T10:24:35Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > You know when you laugh so hard one side of your abdomen hurts? Of course you do. But what’s the word for it? No? > > The Japanese neatly call it katahara itai. Sidesplitter, gutbuster, …no? And katahara itai is issually used as a put-down. (I.e. "Well that’s so funny, I forgot to laugh. :rolleyes: "-type thing) ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/34 "2005-10-03T11:32:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So the Dutch get credit for using a term two syllables longer than the English equivalent? “Skipping stones” is a perfectly good term for that, if you can get over the fact that it happens to have a space in the middle. Y’know, it’s actually worse than that because “skipping” alone conveys the action. If you’re not skipping stones, you might be skipping bottle caps or sea shells. A speedboat can skip across rough waves, When Jesus was young he didn’t walk across water but skipped -er, oops. So we DO have one word for the action. It just has several other meanings as well. English does that a lot. Very often these words and phrases (e.g. “lightbulb moment”) reflect on the richness and spread of memes in the underlying culture. They begin as well-recognized metaphors and a choice few endure long enough and spread widely enough to be classed as “words”. It can be tough call for an experienced lexicographer, but a visiting tourist may make that call ten seconds after learning a term. Would that be a variant on the frog at the bottom of the well? Or is it more like the man with only a hammer (to whom everything looks like a nail). ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/35 "2005-10-04T04:27:39Z")
Oh, and something else that I’ve run across when I’ve worked on translations: puns and plays on words. Nearly impossible to pull off. (So a couple billion Chinese folk are mostly safe from the horrors of Xanth. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/36 "2005-10-04T04:42:46Z")
A play on words in another language: I went to an event on Indian civilization at the Sackler Gallery of the Smithsonian, the one with the Asian collection and all the Asian art happenings. The show’s title was _Purva Uttara_, a Sanskrit phrase, which was translated in English as “Past Forward.” The theme was connecting ancient Indian civilization with the future. It’s a pun in English, but they found a Sanskrit phrase that exactly matches it. Actually, with proper Sanskrit sandhi the phrase should read _Purvottara_, but sometimes people’ll keep the words separate and unsandhied to make them easier to recognize. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/37 "2005-10-04T14:17:45Z")
> [@chriscya](#): > > In the version of the article that I read, Koshatrik meant “a dealer in stolen cats” rather than a dealer in dead cats, which I guess makes a little more sense. I’ll look for it. I had to think of my own dead cat to stop myself laughing at this in the middle of the office 😛 ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/38 "2005-10-04T16:25:30Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Actually, it’s “l’esprit d’escalier” (wit of staircase). > > My prefered is still the portuguese “saudade” (besides, I also find that the sound of the word conjures its overal meaning), that I will let to be translated by somebody clearly understanding what it refers to. It’s a specific feeling of melancholy. _Estou com saudades do brasil ☹_ Your [choice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade) (and mine as well) is considered one of the [top ten most difficult words to translate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_hardest_to_translate). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/39 "2005-10-04T16:55:08Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > the guilt-ridden husband who buys a present for his wife? > > that’s a neat example–one word in German for an entire sentence in English. But it doesn’t take an entire sentence. If you had a box under your arm and someone asked you what it was, a German could respond, “drachenfutter.” An English-speaker could respond, “peace offering” (same # of syllables) or “make-up gift” (one less syllable) or “preemptive present” or any number of other short phrases that would get the point across well. Technically, “prophylactic gift” would explain it perfectly (a gift intended to prevent problems – look up “prophylactic” as an adjective in the dictionary), but it could be easily misinterpreted 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dant.kz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb9ed0/32.png) [@dant.kz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dant.kz)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421/40 "2013-06-03T18:25:35Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > English has some expressions that must sound really weird to foreigners: > > try to explain “snake oil salesman” to somebody who translates it literally into his own language. It must sound as bad as ‘seller of dead cats.’ > > that’s a neat example–one word in German for an entire sentence in English. > > But on the other hand–try this: > “the feeling of amazement when I finally understood and figured out something that had been unclear for years” > In English, it only takes 2 words: " lightbulb moment". how about 1 word ‘epiphany’? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-russian-need-a-word-for-the-seller-of-dead-cats/324421.md?page=3)