# Why would someone choose gun ownership over their own well-being?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 24, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199 "2018-08-24T17:19:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/61 "2018-08-25T16:45:28Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> Even if you believe it’s essential to carry a gun at all times for self-protection, what are the odds you’ll ever actually use it?.
She believes it’s essential = she believes she may actually need to use it. So, she perceives gun availability to be necessary for her own well-being.
Your perception is evidently different, but it seems to me as if you actually have the necessary information to understand hers.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/62 "2018-08-25T16:54:58Z")
I haven’t read the whole thread carefully enough to see if anyone else has made the same point, but here’s my WAG:
[Armchair psychologist] She feels scared and vulnerable, at least partly due to the pain and health issues. Having a gun makes her feel less vulnerable. Giving up the gun would make her feel more vulnerable. Marijuana might ease her pain but it wouldn’t make her feel any safer. [/ap]
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### Author:  [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/63 "2018-08-25T16:56:20Z")
OP didn’t ask whether the friend has a right, he asked why.
This is not complicated.
1. Someone’s after her, or
2. She spends a lot of time in area(s) where the risk is much higher than average, or
3. She’s paranoid, believes the risk to her is much higher than it actually is and the chances of her being able to use it to defend herself are much higher than they actually are, due to things she’s read and heard, or
4. She’s a gun nut
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### Author:  [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/64 "2018-08-25T20:06:16Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> You’re right, of course. Rationally, there’s no reason a woman living in a safe suburb who’s never been assaulted would need to carry lethal self-defense. The likelihood of her ever needing to defend herself at all, let alone with lethal force, is very small.
Molly Tibbets had as statistically very small chance of getting murdered too.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/65 "2018-08-25T20:08:51Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> Second – no, it makes no sense that opioid users can own guns and pot users can’t. Take it up with USAG Sessions.
It does make sense. Your friend is taking Vicodin which is a Schedule 2 narcotic. Marijuana is a Schedule 1 narcotic. There are FDA approved marijuana derivatives that are Schedule 2.
[The DEA has the short version of the scheduled drugs](https://www.nevadacarry.org/blog/is-it-illegal-to-be-on-prescription-drugs-and-carry-a-gun). Schedule 1 drugs—marijuana, cocaine, heroin—are always off-limits federally, though as we know, weed is no longer a big deal socially, the ATF takes marijuana and guns seriously. Prescription drugs (Schedule 2-5) are not illegal, when taken by someone who has a valid prescription.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/66 "2018-08-25T20:38:09Z")
> [@Ashtura](#):
>
> Molly Tibbets had as statistically very small chance of getting murdered too.
Yup and statistically her having a gun would have been more dangerous to her than not having a gun.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/67 "2018-08-25T20:54:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> Yup and statistically her having a gun would have been more dangerous to her than not having a gun.
This is not true.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/68 "2018-08-25T21:05:54Z")
Single woman here. I’ve been assaulted and had my house violently broken into but have not had a gun. I can understand why a woman would feel safer and more secure with a gun, though (regardless of stats–this is a feeling). And if this woman’s pain is caused by a medical condition that leaves her more vulnerable, she may well feel that the pain may _hurt_ her quality of life, but not being able to defend herself may _end_ her life. I’m not saying these are entirely rational, but feelings are not rational.
Also, I’ve known people who get enraged that the federal government “takes away our guns” for ANY reason. It doesn’t sound like that’s the friend’s reaction, but rage can carry people quite a ways.
I’ve also been in severe, unrelenting, 24/7 pain long-term. At that pain level, principles fly out the window, and you’d give almost anything to get relief. Her pain doesn’t sound that severe. For her, the trade-off of perceived protection for relief of mild to moderate pain obviously isn’t worth it.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/69 "2018-08-26T01:26:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> Yup and statistically her having a gun would have been more dangerous to her than not having a gun.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> This is not true.
She could have been deader! Thank goodness she wasn’t armed!
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### Author:  [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/70 "2018-08-26T05:38:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> She could have been deader! Thank goodness she wasn’t armed!
If she’d had a gun, her killer might have taken it off her and used it on her. This way she’s much less dead and can’t we all agree that’s for the better?
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/71 "2018-08-26T07:05:02Z")
> [@Scumpup](#):
>
> If she’d had a gun, her killer might have taken it off her and used it on her.
The operative word here is killer. not carrying a gun because a killer might kill you with it is solidly on the low side of the argument. That’s like saying you shouldn’t get a vaccine because you might have an allergic reaction.
What the op hasn’t established is any benefit of marijuana over Vicodin. It’s as if we’re supposed to assume marijuana is some kind of a miracle drug for pain. There is no medical evidence that it is.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/72 "2018-08-26T07:07:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Not to hijack, but have there been any court cases to define what a “current user” of marijuana is? I know that the BATFE has a regulation that any conviction for possession of a controlled substance within the past year is considered “current use” but that seems like an overly restrictive interpretation.
>
> It seems to me that a court could just as easily say that as long as you are not currently and immediately using and under the influence of the drug, you may possess and carry the gun at other times.
>
> It seems like the administration could modify that rule today: That insofar as marijuana is concerned, one may buy and possess guns so long as one is not under the immediate influence of the drug or is not at that moment using marijuana. Many states have the same law for alcohol.
It’s not merely buying and using; it’s possessing marijuana. Actually, as long as someone [has a medical marijuana card](http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/medical-marijuana-gun), he or she cannot legally possess a gun, regardless of whether she uses or possesses marijuana:
> [@](#):
>
> Wilson claimed that she doesn’t actually use marijuana, she simply obtained a card to show her support for its legalization. The appeals court agreed with guidelines from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that firearms sellers should assume that medical marijuana card holders use the drug.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/73 "2018-08-26T07:22:04Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> It’s not merely buying and using; it’s possessing marijuana. Actually, as long as someone [has a medical marijuana card](http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/medical-marijuana-gun), he or she cannot legally possess a gun, regardless of whether she uses or possesses marijuana:
yes but they can use the Schedule 2 version of the drug with a prescription.
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### Author:  [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/74 "2018-08-26T13:29:06Z")
This may be politically incorrect to say, but marijuana isn’t all that good of a pain-killer … for some it works well but for others not at all … so this may not be about how much value your friend puts on the gun but how little value she puts on medical marijuana … it does seem your friend is putting the law above all else, and someone you’d want nearby “just in case” …
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/75 "2018-08-26T18:55:47Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> This may be politically incorrect to say, but marijuana isn’t all that good of a pain-killer … for some it works well but for others not at all … so this may not be about how much value your friend puts on the gun but how little value she puts on medical marijuana … it does seem your friend is putting the law above all else, and someone you’d want nearby “just in case” …
Yes, I have mentioned this a couple of time, but no one listens to that. From the posts here your would think that one puff and miraculously all her pain will be gone, and that her gun will leap out of her purse and shoot here all by itself at any time.:rolleyes:😛
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/76 "2018-08-26T20:03:35Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> It’s not merely buying and using; it’s possessing marijuana. Actually, as long as someone [has a medical marijuana card](http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/medical-marijuana-gun), he or she cannot legally possess a gun, regardless of whether she uses or possesses marijuana:
> [@18 USC 922 (g) in part](#):
>
> who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
Nothing about possession (although possession, I would concede is good evidence of current use).
I think the judge is wrong. When it comes to fundamental rights, the government should not be allowed to make such presumptions. All a medical marijuana card is evidence of is that I am permitted by state law to acquire marijuana in the event my doctor prescribes it for me. It is not proof of current use.
I have refills left on prescription drugs that I no longer take. Having the prescription does not make me a current user.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/77 "2018-08-26T20:05:32Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> My friend has severe, chronic back pain from a long-ago injury. Surgery didn’t help. She takes a ton of vicodin and just barely manages the pain. We live in Illinois, so she can apply for medical marijuana, and (as a former nurse) she believes it would probably help her a lot.
>
> But she won’t apply for a medical marijuana card, because under federal law it would negate her concealed carry license.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Paging **qadgop the mercotan**.
>
> Vicodin is not useful for long term pain management in many cases. And the chance for addiction is very high.
>
> [Chronic pain: Medication decisions - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/chronic-pain-medication-decisions/art-20360371)
>
> [http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/732048/systematic-review-opioid-treatment-chronic-back-pain-prevalence-efficacy-association](http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/732048/systematic-review-opioid-treatment-chronic-back-pain-prevalence-efficacy-association)
> _Conclusions:
> Opioids are commonly prescribed for chronic back pain and may be efficacious for short-term pain relief. Long-term efficacy (≥16 weeks) is unclear. Substance use disorders are common in patients taking opioids for back pain, and aberrant medication-taking behaviors occur in up to 24% of cases._
Mayo Clinic on back pain:
[INDENT] Back pain is one of the most common reasons people go to the doctor or miss work, and it is a leading cause of disability worldwide. Most people have back pain at least once.
… Opioids don’t work well for chronic pain, so your prescription will usually provide less than a week’s worth of pills.
A **physical therapist** can apply a variety of treatments, such as heat, ultrasound, electrical stimulation and muscle-release techniques, to your back muscles and soft tissues to reduce pain.
As pain improves, the therapist can teach you exercises to increase your flexibility, strengthen your back and abdominal muscles, and improve your posture. Regular use of these techniques can help keep pain from returning. [/INDENT] Emphasis added. I am not a doctor, I don’t know the patient, but there are other treatments besides pot. I don’t object to medical marijuana, I’m just saying. [Back pain - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/back-pain/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20369911)
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### Author:  [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/78 "2018-08-27T14:48:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Yep, that’s pretty much the case. Why do you find that surprising?
I just never thought of that.
I’m more surprised that I haven’t read any threads here decrying such a 2nd Amendment-infringing law.
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### Author:  [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/79 "2018-08-27T15:00:47Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> Not looking for a debate on the 2nd Amendment here, or even about gun ownership in general. I just want insight into a friend’s decision that I find utterly baffling.
>
> My friend has severe, chronic back pain from a long-ago injury. Surgery didn’t help. She takes a ton of vicodin and just barely manages the pain. We live in Illinois, so she can apply for medical marijuana, and (as a former nurse) she believes it would probably help her a lot.
>
> But she won’t apply for a medical marijuana card, because under federal law it would negate her concealed carry license.
>
> This strikes me as insane. Even if you believe it’s essential to carry a gun at all times for self-protection, what are the odds you’ll ever actually use it? One in 1000 is probably way too high, but let’s go with that. So my friend is basically choosing a 1/1000 scenario over one that will help her feel better every single day.
>
> We have gun owners and gun-rights advocates here. Explain how this mindset makes sense.
Ok you didn’t give us much information about your friend, but consider she is probably smaller than most males, she can’t defend herself against an attacker (given her back injury), she’s also on a drug(s) that have some street value, and it’s probably well know she has drugs. Each of those factors makes her a target, so after weighting the options the only real way she has to defend herself is with a firearm. And while the odds of her needing to use a gun to defend herself may be small, it does happen, so while you may be comfortable with 18.6 violent crime per 1,000.[https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv15.pdf](https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv15.pdf) but it appears she is not, and given her position of not being able to defend herself, having drug(s) that do have a street value, she may feel she’s at even a greater risk then you are, and thus would put up with the pain then the risk of being the victim of a violent crime.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-choose-gun-ownership-over-their-own-well-being/820199/80 "2018-08-27T16:24:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#):
>
> Nothing about possession (although possession, I would concede is good evidence of current use).
>
> I think the judge is wrong. When it comes to fundamental rights, the government should not be allowed to make such presumptions. All a medical marijuana card is evidence of is that I am permitted by state law to acquire marijuana in the event my doctor prescribes it for me. It is not proof of current use.
>
> I have refills left on prescription drugs that I no longer take. Having the prescription does not make me a current user.
Actually, it’s three judges, since it was a US appellate court. The defendant’s attorney said he’d appeal, so stay tuned. And for the record, I agree with you.
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