# Why would someone need a gun on a college campus? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 20, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599 "2017-01-20T03:08:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bobo\_blesinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@bobo\_blesinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobo_blesinger)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/41 "2017-01-21T00:33:40Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No, I don’t believe the police should kill anyone who violates a “no guns allowed” sign on the basis of only having the gun. I think the police should arrest them. Now if the gun carrier violently tries to avoid arrest in such a manner that puts the police or anyone in the general area in danger, I have no problem with the police using whatever force is necessary including lethal force to stop them. What I don’t like is that because of campus carry laws, people can bring dangerous lethal objects into crowded public places without adequate safeguards. I don’t want handguns in the library for exact same reason I don’t want chemistry students bringing beakers filled with corrosive acid into the library. Aren’t you the one who keeps your concealed gun aimed at cab drivers giving you a ride? I doubt cabbies want crazy people bringing their guns into their cabs. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/42 "2017-01-21T00:36:57Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Banning alcohol at parties on campus or banning men from being in women’s dormitories (which would also require bringing back single sex dormitories) would be more effective. That said, I work on a campus 5 to 6 days a week and I am highly opposed to the students carrying guns on campus. All it really does make more work for the campus police and escalate the danger everyone is in if there is an actual active shooter. I didn’t say I thought it was a good idea – just that it might be one reason people would want a gun. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/43 "2017-01-21T00:44:03Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I don’t want handguns in the library for exact same reason I don’t want chemistry students bringing beakers filled with corrosive acid into the library. What if they use a suppressor? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/44 "2017-01-21T01:10:23Z")
These discussions always seem to start out with _Why do you need…?_ as if every right must be justified by the need to access that right. The reverse should be the default. _Why must you take this right from me_? There is no demonstrated justification for gun-free zones. Except to create areas for safe criminal shootings and a feeling like society has somehow solved a problem. Every other place that you go in the US there may be someone, or many someones who are quietly, discretely armed. So where are all the mass gun shootings happening? Not in your local grocery store, someone may be armed. Not in your local park, someone may be armed. No, these shootings happen in gun-free zones, schools, colleges, hospitals and other gun-free zones where there will be no private gun owners. If we could just get rid of those peaceful private gun owners that you don’t even know are there, everything would be fine. Right. Don’t fantasize about removing the guns from US society, that cat got out of the bag a long time ago and ain’t going back in. Learn to live with the fact that there are gun carriers almost everywhere you go. And then ask yourself if you really feel safer in areas posted as gun free zones. Where the only people around who will be armed are the crazy unstable sort who target these safe areas for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/45 "2017-01-21T01:52:03Z")
I’m always amused at people who think guns provide protection. It’s like they’ve never heard of mass shootings at military bases or of cops being shot. I’m also amused by those who think armed civilians will manage to stop random shooters without causing collateral damage. Shooting a firearm accurately is hard work. Doing it in a stressful situation is hard work. Doing it when surprised is hard work. But don’t take my word for it. Read some coroner’s reports on bad guys who were killed by police. The amount of bullets that actually strike a target is astoundingly low. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/46 "2017-01-21T02:00:23Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > These discussions always seem to start out with _Why do you need…?_ as if every right must be justified by the need to access that right. > > The reverse should be the default. _Why must you take this right from me_? > > There is no demonstrated justification for gun-free zones. Except to create areas for safe criminal shootings and a feeling like society has somehow solved a problem. Every other place that you go in the US there may be someone, or many someones who are quietly, discretely armed. > > So where are all the mass gun shootings happening? Not in your local grocery store, someone may be armed. Not in your local park, someone may be armed. > > No, these shootings happen in gun-free zones, schools, colleges, hospitals and other gun-free zones where there will be no private gun owners. > > If we could just get rid of those peaceful private gun owners that you don’t even know are there, everything would be fine. Right. Don’t fantasize about removing the guns from US society, that cat got out of the bag a long time ago and ain’t going back in. Learn to live with the fact that there are gun carriers almost everywhere you go. > > And then ask yourself if you really feel safer in areas posted as gun free zones. Where the only people around who will be armed are the crazy unstable sort who target these safe areas for their actions. Explain [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers)then. Note the many armed civilians and police who were present at that event, which did not occur in a gun- free zone. The perpetrator was also not killed by gunfire. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/47 "2017-01-21T03:12:07Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So the answer to reducing crime and death is more guns. > > Are you suggesting that for countries with very strict gun laws could reduce their crime rates by introducing more guns for everyone? Anyone want to take a stab at answering this? I would like to see what answers are given. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/48 "2017-01-21T04:13:32Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > As long as there are Neidermeyers and Marmalards around, college students need to be armed. Doesn’t anybody remember poor Trooper? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/49 "2017-01-21T19:00:33Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No, but I believe that having laws that allow police to arrest people for carrying guns where they are not allowed makes it much easier to stop someone intent on no good than having to wait for that person to present a more imminent treat. To me it’s the equivalency of an open can law (i.e., if you are driving with an open can of beer in your cup holder, I think the police should be able to arrest you for DWI without bothering to check your blood alcohol level, res ispa loquitur). Anti-carry laws are a great tool for law enforcement. Further more anyone carrying them gun somewhere that it is visible enough for them to get caught, well, they deserve the arrest for stupidity. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Anti-carry laws are a great tool for law enforcement. Further more anyone carrying them gun somewhere that it is visible enough for I am law enforcement and you don’t know what you’re babbling about. In most states carrying into a posted business is an ordinance violation not a criminal offense. The odds of being arrested for it instead of issued a citation on the scene is low. And in several states those signs have no force of law whatsoever. The worst that can happen is the armed patron can be told to leave and can only be cited if they don’t. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > (i.e., if you are driving with an open can of beer in your cup holder, I think the police should be able to arrest you for DWI without bothering to check your blood alcohol level). Wow. You have a real grasp on how things work, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/50 "2017-01-21T19:20:45Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Drunk Aggies with firearms (shudder), that is the stuff of campus nightmares They’re not legal on campus so, by God, nobody has one! Nobody but NOBODY would dare break that law! Every time any sort of carry law comes up, be it in public, on campus, in bars, whatever, the people who oppose it continue to be under the impression that because it’s forbidden people simply don’t do it. That couldn’t be any more false. You need only read the news to find people who get arrested and are charged with firearms violations. As usual, I am compelled to state the obvious: criminals don’t obey laws. Furthermore, when it does pass there is never any statistical data that shows that it caused any more death or destruction than what happened prior to the law being passed. But here we are, seeing the same handwringing as usual, with the person I quoted saying in a previous post that he actively avoids places where firearms are welcome, pretending that if he looks the other direction he’ll never encounter anyone carrying a gun. Here’s the funny thing… odds are you already have, and you never even knew it. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/51 "2017-01-21T19:41:32Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Furthermore, when it does pass there is never any statistical data that shows that it caused any more death or destruction than what happened prior to the law being passed. But here we are, seeing the same handwringing as usual, . And whenever those laws pass and years go by without any problems, the handwringers never have the honor to admit they were wrong. Whether it’s a concealed carry legalization, open carry, carry in bars, schools, colleges, etc… Every time those laws are passed they are never repealed due to problems and the antis never admit the sky didn’t fall. And did you notice they’re more concerned about people who want to carry legally than about criminals who couldn’t possibly care less WTF the law is? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/52 "2017-01-21T22:34:54Z")
Funny how there are states which allow college campus carry or even elementary school carry yet there doesn’t seem to be huge numbers of professors shot for giving bad grades or instances of ccw permit holders shooting up schools. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/53 "2017-01-22T00:05:57Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > I’m always amused at people who think guns provide protection. It’s like they’ve never heard of mass shootings at military bases or of cops being shot. > > I’m also amused by those who think armed civilians will manage to stop random shooters without causing collateral damage. > > Shooting a firearm accurately is hard work. Doing it in a stressful situation is hard work. Doing it when surprised is hard work. > > But don’t take my word for it. Read some coroner’s reports on bad guys who were killed by police. The amount of bullets that actually strike a target is astoundingly low. If you’re referring to the shooting at Ft. Hood, you need to get your facts straight. Ordinary soldiers on base are NOT allowed to carry weapons during their normal activities. And talking about cops-- when was the last time that somebody walked into a police station and starting shooting indiscriminately? It’s really odd how places that are known to have a high number of guns typically are not targeted. It’s almost as if criminals like soft targets. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/54 "2017-01-22T00:07:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Yeah, I’m generally pro-gun, but this is one place I strongly diverge from the rest of the pro-gun crowd. > > I was a RA for 3.5 years at one of the largest state universities in the country (Texas A&M) in the early-mid 1990s. While my residents were pretty much non-violent and law-abiding, they were also pretty much 18-22 year old dipshits with a proclivity for getting drunk and doing dumb and possibly injurious things. I even fell into that category, and I was one of the guys nominally in charge! Combine this with the still not quite developed emotional state of most college students, and you have a bunch of frequently drunk dumb-asses who often get drunk and do stupid things out of their drunkenness and/or emotion. > > Throwing guns into that mix is a bad idea. I could totally see my idiot residents getting liquored up and pulling out Billy’s shotgun and playing CD skeet-shooting out the windows. Or any number of other dangerous but not intentionally violent things. I could also see some of my more… dramatic residents shooting themselves after breaking up with girlfriends, had guns actually been present. Or shooting someone else in one of the myriad of love triangles, cheating incidents and misinterpreted FWB situations that I saw in that time as an RA. > > As it was, it was just a lot of yelling, crying, and the occasional fist-fight, and the stupid stuff was confined to mostly non-violent things like firing model rockets down a hallway, trying to ride a mattress down the stairs, shooting hunting slingshots in the hallways, lighting anything and everything on fire, and dozens of other less than well thought out things that happened if not weekly, at least monthly. > > Guns just add a deadly element to all that, and to what end? So that on that _extremely_ low probability that someone actually might need a gun for self-defense, it’s present? It’s like giving someone preventative chemotherapy in case they might get cancer. For many, many years now, Colorado has allowed people to carry guns in bars. When was the last time that you saw a news report about a drunken Coloradan shooting up a bar? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/55 "2017-01-22T00:10:33Z")
Why do I need a gun on campus? I ain’t taking Thermodynamics twice bitch. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/56 "2017-01-22T00:18:54Z")
Another issue with guns is that they are a draw for theft. Plenty of law-abiding gun owners have had guns stolen from them, and then the thief can go on to commit a more serious crime with the gun. A lot of theft happens on college campuses. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/57 "2017-01-22T00:27:30Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Why do I need a gun on campus? > > I ain’t taking Thermodynamics twice bitch. You win the thread. Hands down. Or is that “Hands UP!!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/58 "2017-01-22T03:35:05Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > For many, many years now, Colorado has allowed people to carry guns in bars. When was the last time that you saw a news report about a drunken Coloradan shooting up a bar? All I’m saying is that there isn’t a real need for guns on campus, and certainly not in dorms. The mix of alcohol, boredom and stupidity is pretty potent, and I’m not convinced that there’s much good to be had by allowing them, and there’s plenty of bad to be had. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/59 "2017-01-22T05:43:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > All I’m saying is that there isn’t a real need for guns on campus, and certainly not in dorms. The mix of alcohol, boredom and stupidity is pretty potent, and I’m not convinced that there’s much good to be had by allowing them, and there’s plenty of bad to be had. So, you claim to be pro-gun, yet you would forbid young adults from even keeping guns in their own residence? That seems…not really pro-gun. As others have said, look at the stats? Is there a problem in states that allow carry on campus? No. And, as also was said, a person does need to prove a “real need” to exercise a right. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599/60 "2017-01-22T06:42:11Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Another issue with guns is that they are a draw for theft. Plenty of law-abiding gun owners have had guns stolen from them, and then the thief can go on to commit a more serious crime with the gun. A lot of theft happens on college campuses. You’re right that a lot of thefts happen on college campuses (FYI my brother is a campus cop and told me that over half their calls involve thefts. He also supports instructors/students to legally carry BTW). But can you explain how a lot of guns are going to get stolen on campus? Where are these guns going to be other than being carried that they are going to get stolen? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-someone-need-a-gun-on-a-college-campus/777599.md?page=4)