# Why would the Russians let us get away with faking a Moon landing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643 "2009-08-16T18:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/1 "2009-08-16T18:10:42Z")
I tend to respond to Conspiracy Theorists with sociological arguments over technical ones because people are more likely to understand those. One of my usual arguments against the Moon Landing as Hoax CT is that the Russians were industriously trying to beat the US to it and there is no way they would have let the US fake it and get away with it. Or would they? Is there anyone out there claiming that the fake landing fooled the Russians? Could the Russians have faked a landing and fooled the US? How could each country verify or refute the claim from the other that there was indeed a landing and not a fake one?. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/2 "2009-08-16T18:18:15Z")
That’s always been the number one most obvious anti-hoax proof as far as I’m concerned - people seriously think that our Cold War enemies, who were watching space like a hawk, wouldn’t have said anything if we faked it? To think that requires an assumption of a conspiracy so big and stupid and completely impossible that it boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/3 "2009-08-16T18:32:15Z")
Friend of mine worked for NASA in the 60s. He said it was well known the Russians were nowhere near having the ability to go to the Moon. The “space race” was played up by NASA in order to make sure they had plenty of funding. Every time they needed more money they would just say “you don’t want the Russians to beat us do you?” and the money would flow. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/4 "2009-08-16T18:40:28Z")
The guys at the BadAstronomy forum pointed at this Russian article ( **The Bad Astronomer** used to post here, I miss him) [http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/20447-soviet-tracking-apollo-missions.html](http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/20447-soviet-tracking-apollo-missions.html) > [@](#): > > Translated (by mcclir): > > We “saw”, > As Americans > Sat down on the Moon… > E.Molotov specially > For " News of astronautics " > > Whether clause(article) of the participant of events of 30-years prescription of E.P.Molotova offered(suggested) to readers throws light on unknown pages of " lunar race " and finally closes a ridiculous question " there Were Americans on the Moon? " > > … > > M.S.Rjazansky at that time was responsible for creation of onboard and ground radio engineering control facilities by spacecrafts of the Soviet lunar program. Under his(its) management(manual) for management Soviet пилотируемыми and automatic spacecrafts for research of the Moon the Ground complex of management including two control centres by flight, six ground and three ship items(points) of the management, equipped with corresponding stations of tracking and located on territory of Soviet Union and in the certain points of World ocean has been created. However these means could not be used for reception of the information from the ships “Apollo” as they worked in the other frequency range with the signals having other structure. Therefore it was necessary to create the special control complex, capable to provide reception of the data from “Apollos”. It was supposed to accept from the American spacecrafts not only telephone (voice) and telemetering, but also the television information. > > Has been solved to include in a control complex aerial TNA-400 with diameter of a mirror 32 m which was placed in Crimea, near to Simferopol (fig. 1). She(it) was used as the reception aerial of a radio engineering complex “Saturn - МС” providing management by the Soviet automatic space vehicles for research of the Moon later: “Moon rovers”, devices for delivery of a lunar ground to the Earth, and also lunar satellites. > > For work in structure of a control complex aerial TNA-400 has been equipped малошумящим with the reception device working in a range of 13 sm (range S in which transmitters of lunar modules of the program “Apollo” worked). Besides in structure of a complex have come: the demodulator of a group signal transmitted on bearing(carrying) frequency and the signals transmitted on поднесущих frequencies, the equipment of allocation of the voice, telemetering and television information, and also the equipment of display and management of a complex (fig. 2). > > The control complex created in short terms РНИИ КП in cooperation with the several industrial enterprises, was ready to reception of signals from spacecrafts of the program “Apollo” in November, 1968. > > To trace the ships at their flight on orbits around of the Moon and at landing(planting) to its(her) surface, it was necessary to have the ballistic data of these orbits for calculation целеуказаний to the aerial. However such data were not published by Americans. Therefore the data on orbits of flight were calculated by ballistics on the basis of time of start and arrival to the Moon of the ships “Apollo” which informed by the American radio. On these data paid off целеуказания for prompting the aerial which were specified on signals accepted by a control complex from the lunar ships. > > Such approach to calculation целеуказаний has allowed to accept reliably enough signals from “Apollos”. The problem(task) of search of signals was facilitated by that the diagram of an orientation of the aerial covered practically half of disk of the Moon. > > Tracking was conducted behind spacecrafts of expeditions(dispatches) “Apollo - 8”, “Apollo - 10”, “Apollo - 11” and “Apollo - 12” from December, 1968 till November, 1969. > From all these ships telephone conversations of astronauts with the Earth and the telemetering information on a condition of onboard systems were accepted with high quality. The accepted television signal had poor quality because of an insufficient level of an energy potential of a radioline on the basis of the 32-meter aerial. Original Russian cosmonauts site: [http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/271/03.shtml](http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/271/03.shtml) So, the Russians did verify it, but because of their secrecy they did not mention how until the fall of the soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/5 "2009-08-16T19:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Friend of mine worked for NASA in the 60s. He said it was well known the Russians were nowhere near having the ability to go to the Moon. The “space race” was played up by NASA in order to make sure they had plenty of funding. Every time they needed more money they would just say “you don’t want the Russians to beat us do you?” and the money would flow. That’s pretty hard to credit. The fact is that the Soviet Union was generally ahead of the United States in space travel. They had an unmanned mission land on the moon in 1959, a soft landing on the moon in 1966, and regular multi-crew multi-day missions by 1969. They were clearly on the verge of a manned lunar mission at the same time as Apollo 11. Probably the only thing that kept the Soviets from putting a man on the moon first was the unexpected death of Sergey Korolyov in 1966. Not only did his death cost the Soviets their top administrator, but their space program was consumed by infighting for several months as people scrambled to be named as his replacement. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/6 "2009-08-16T19:07:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The guys at the BadAstronomy forum pointed at this Russian article ( **The Bad Astronomer** used to post here, I miss him) > > [http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/20447-soviet-tracking-apollo-missions.html](http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/20447-soviet-tracking-apollo-missions.html) > Original Russian cosmonauts site: > [http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/271/03.shtml](http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/271/03.shtml) > > So, the Russians did verify it, but because of their secrecy they did not mention how until the fall of the soviet Union. Thanks. A fascinating read (despite the broken english). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/7 "2009-08-16T19:11:22Z")
One of your _ususal_ arguments against the moon landing hoax? You are spending way too much time among the loons. ---
**Author:** ![Jerseyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/8 "2009-08-16T19:13:50Z")
It was not worth their while. They were ahead in ‘robots’ that did not need all the paraphanalia of life support. The same has been true of more distant space missions, never mind all the problems of getting people to Mars and back, sens machines there that can stay for as long as they keep working. All the Big Conspiracy Theories have to come back to a Secret World Leadership so powerful in terms of suppression and control that it would far easier for them to just take over. Imagine it true: the Soviets knew there were no moon shots but pretended to have lost out because their Secret Leadership commanded it. Aliens who had collaborated with the Nazis (but still failed to use any of their advanced technology in war) subsequently chose the USA (instead of another secretive science-obsessed police state ten times the size with more than half barely inhabited - very likely!). And in all the time since, the US never threatened the Soviets with these craft and went on developing entirely fake space and military projects at vast expense? They didn’t instead establish manned bases all over the system to show the Soviets they hadn’t a chance? ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/9 "2009-08-16T19:24:26Z")
Oh, this one’s easy to explain away. The Soviet space/spy program had to spend an inordinate amount of rubles to upgrade their equipment to be able to track the U.S. Apollo spacecraft. And then after they spent all that money… They couldn’t see anything at all! (that’s because the so-called moon spacecraft weren’t there, of course). So, to avoid embarrassment, they reported to their superiors complete success: their tracking equipment worked, and recorded the American moon landings. No complicated high-level collusion between the soviets and the U.S. gov’t required at all. Just the low-level tech grunts covering their asses. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/10 "2009-08-16T19:27:35Z")
Maybe this is a stupid question, but didn’t the landing itself happen at night time (for us)? Couldn’t people have pulled out their telescopes and watched dots bouncing around the moon? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/11 "2009-08-16T19:28:30Z")
For a play off. First of all the Soviets spent money on the race, by admitting defeat that cleared up a lot of money. OK America won, let’s move on. The race to the moon didn’t have many real applications, it was mostly a matter of pride. Although we certainly learned a lot and science was helped by going to the moon, that was secondary. It was kind of like an expensive Olympics, you have the race and someone wins and you move on. Like the Berlin Olympics were a succsessful propoganda piece for the Nazis, but so what? You just move on. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/12 "2009-08-16T19:47:00Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Maybe this is a stupid question, but didn’t the landing itself happen at night time (for us)? Couldn’t people have pulled out their telescopes and watched dots bouncing around the moon? We’ve discussed this a bunch. Search for the relevant threads. The short answer is nothing, not even Hubble today, can see anything as small as the LM at the distance from the Earth to the Moon. And certainly noody with a ground based telescope in 1969 could see people, especially not looking through the atmosphere & all its distortion. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/13 "2009-08-16T20:32:07Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And certainly noody with a ground based telescope in 1969 could see people, especially not looking through the atmosphere & all its distortion. Right, how _conveeeeeeenient_ ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/14 "2009-08-16T20:45:08Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Maybe this is a stupid question, but didn’t the landing itself happen at night time (for us)? Couldn’t people have pulled out their telescopes and watched dots bouncing around the moon? The command module/LEM was seen in Moon orbit from ground based telescopes. Just for the brief while it was lit by the Sun but passing over the dark Moon background near the terminator. My alma mater’s Astronomy department actually did this several times and sent the video feed out to one of the networks where it was shown in real time. I knew those folks. They didn’t have anywhere near the capacity to fake something like that. Blasts from course corrections were also seen from Earth telescopes. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/15 "2009-08-16T20:57:20Z")
The conspiracy theorists account for it by saying we bought the Russians’ silence with huge grain shipments. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/16 "2009-08-16T21:04:35Z")
If the russians are in on it, what was the damn point in the first place, if not to “beat the russians”? To spur national pride? ---
**Author:** ![unclelem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ac91a4/32.png) [@unclelem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclelem)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/17 "2009-08-16T21:21:43Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We’ve discussed this a bunch. Search for the relevant threads. The short answer is nothing, not even Hubble today, can see anything as small as the LM at the distance from the Earth to the Moon. And certainly noody with a ground based telescope in 1969 could see people, especially not looking through the atmosphere & all its distortion. Though recent (automated) lunar probes have indeed imaged the landing sites in high enough resolution to see signs of left over equipment and tracks on the surface left by those original explorers. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/18 "2009-08-16T21:28:02Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > If the russians are in on it, what was the damn point in the first place, if not to “beat the russians”? To spur national pride? According to the whackjobs? The illuminati benefited from the buildup of nationalism and the channeling of money through the industrial-military complex\*. Since the illuminati have always been multinational, it was in their interests to get both the US and the USSR to do this at once. However, since landing on the moon was impossible, the illuminati got both sides to quietly permit the other side to fake landings, so that both could maintain national pride. \*After all, the illuminati started WWII… and then Korea. After Korea, they used the space race… which ended just as Vietnam started. Carter messed things up a little, but Reagon managed to get the industrial-military complex back on track despite the lack of a war. You see how the industrial-military complex controls everything? ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/19 "2009-08-16T21:39:50Z")
I thought the illuminati wouldn’t have a lot of free time, what with hiding sequential clues of their existence in major landmarks and works of art. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643/20 "2009-08-16T22:11:04Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > If the russians are in on it, what was the damn point in the first place, if not to “beat the russians”? To spur national pride? Hookers and blow, of course. More money for hookers and blow. Americans and Russians both. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-the-russians-let-us-get-away-with-faking-a-moon-landing/506643.md?page=2)