# Why would you Preach Christianity in a Fundementalist Muslim country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2001, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128 "2001-11-13T15:56:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/1 "2001-11-13T15:56:59Z")
I have been following (idly) the two women who have been detained and now are on trial for spreading Christianity in Afghanistan. The first question that pops into my mind is: Did they have a clue where they were going? I mean they marched into a country ruled by a group who has a standing order to kill anyone preaching Christianity. On top of that, women are treated like dogs and men are supressed unto submission to grow their beards and join the resistance. They are Fundementalist MUSLIMS. They automatically do not want to be converted to Christianity(DUH!!). Imagine driving up to your local Church of Later Day Saints and marching into their worship and saying, Muhammed and Islam is the way to go, here are the reasons why… Something just does not sit right with me. It is bad enough to come home from work and have a little note on my front door that says “Armageddon is coming, you must change your sinful ways and find Jesus…” Do no push your religion on me or my family. We live in the United States for a reason… Do people of Jewish descent go around knocking on peoples door in the name of Jesus? I’d have to say I have never witnessed that. Basically, I wonder why two young women would march into a country that has been ruled by the Taliban, the most fundemental of Muslim extremist groups and start preaching Christianity, which to the Taliban is punnishable by death. It just seems a little extreme. Why not go somewhere where the ruling party is not so pissed at Americans and the American way of life. Does this not seem even slightly ludicrous to anyone else? Christianity is Vast, very vast in its reach around the earth. Why spread it to the places where it is hated most? Why push a religion on someone who obviously does not want it? How come you don’t see die hard Christians pleading to the Jewish population to join and convert to Christianity? Does this not seem slightly silly to anyone else? Whats say ye? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/2 "2001-11-13T16:09:22Z")
Er, are you talking about the 8 arrested aid workers? Or is this a new incident? Just to get some facts straight: It’s a vast oversimplification to say that “these two American women marched in and started preaching”. There was a big group of people, including many Afghanis, who set up shop, not as evangelists but as “aid workers” under the auspices of the German-based charity “Shelter Now”. There are eight Europeans who are getting all the media attention. The Afghanis who were with them and who were also arrested, and who are facing the death penalty for their participation, have dropped off the media’s radar. Two of the Europeans are American women. [http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/11/13/gen.afghanistan.aidworkers/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/11/13/gen.afghanistan.aidworkers/index.html) The short answer to “why people preach Christianity to people who are not Christians” is that they are convinced all non-Christians are going to burn in Hell forever if they aren’t Saved. So it’s out of compassion that they “march into Afghanistan” and preach the Gospel. You truly have been following the story only “idly” if you don’t know why these people went there, or what they hoped to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/3 "2001-11-13T16:38:21Z")
Well **Duck** your right! I said I was following the story Idly because I was I did not know the whole story. I just read the entire story from cnn and from NY Times. These two girls who are Americans working for the German based **Shelter Now International** are both women who have huge hearts and find their glory in helping others. This is obviously the reason they picked Afghanistan to go to in hopes they could help out the children and women there. This from [cnn.com](http://cnn.com): > [@](#): > > Dayna and Heather got to know each other in Waco when they both joined the Antioch Community Church, an evangelical, non-denominational church with a contemporary style of worship. There is no doubt that these girls are full of love and both have huge hearts. But Afghanistan? It just does not seem to be the right path to start with. I know they wanted to help, and they were doing a wonderful job at just that. Helping. BUt is anyone trying to say that they were _not_\* spreading the word of God. The Christian word at that. I sincerely doubt this. I am agnostic and I have been very pensive towards other religions and other peoples point of view. I would never shoot down someone elses views as wrong or incorrect. Thats not my place. But pushing ones religious beliefs on someone else, seems to put that person in a position not behoven to thier nature. No one has the right to judge. I stand for those who stick to thier beliefs and who DO NOT push them on to others. These aide workers were NOT strictly there for the spread of Christianity, but I do believe that that was a subordinate goal to the helping of the refugees. I hope they come back safe and sound. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/4 "2001-11-13T16:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \* > **I have been following (idly) …** That much is clear, since your post contains a number of inaccuracies. **Duck Duck Goose** has offered some corrections… I will only add: > [@](#): > > How come you don’t see die hard Christians pleading to the Jewish population to join and convert to Christianity? You do see that, quite frequently. In fact, one of the more irritating things to many observant Jews is the “Jews for Jesus” movement, which purports to be traditional Judaism that also recognizes Jesus as the Messiah. This is obviously absurd, since “tradtional Judaism” recognizes no such thing, and taking the outward trapping of the Jewish practice and using them to disguise what is in essence a Christian movement – sponsored somewhat discreetly by Christian churches, I might add – is at best disingenouous, and at worst a cynical and deceptive fraud. You also “see” many evangelical Christians working on converting Jews without resorting to disguises. One of the principles many Christians believe and follow is the idea that Jesus commanded them to spread the faith, and that, absent an acceptance of Jesus, all are doomed to the lake of eternal fire. With this view in mind, you could argue that these people are in fact quite selfless - risking their freedom and lives with no goal other than to save the souls of those they’ve targetted. You may not agree with their premise. But within their belief system, it’s arguably an act of selflessness and compassion. - Rick Does this not seem slightly silly to anyone else? Whats say ye? \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/5 "2001-11-13T20:39:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Does this not seem slightly silly to anyone else? I think all evangelical efforts are rather silly (and more than a bit annoying), but that’s me. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/6 "2001-11-13T22:09:05Z")
I’ve asked this before without getting results, so I’ll ask again here. Is there any credible evidence that this group was proselytizing? I’ve not been able to find any on the net, other than the Taliban’s assertion that they were. QtM ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/7 "2001-11-13T22:33:04Z")
A lot of your Catholic orders do missionary work that doesn’t necessarily include evangelizing-if they’re looking for converts, they’re doing so through example-by providing a model for good Catholics. Franciscans and the Maryknoll order, are two examples of this. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/8 "2001-11-13T23:02:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \* > I am agnostic and I have been very pensive towards other religions and other peoples point of view. I would never shoot down someone elses views as wrong or incorrect. Thats not my place. But pushing ones religious beliefs on someone else, seems to put that person in a position not behoven to thier nature. No one has the right to judge. I stand for those who stick to thier beliefs and who DO NOT push them on to others. These aide workers were NOT strictly there for the spread of Christianity, but I do believe that that was a subordinate goal to the helping of the refugees. I hope they come back safe and sound. Firstly, sharing your beliefs is not the same as pushing them on someone else. Secondly, I have seen no proof that the workers were indeed actively trying to convert people. Their familes have denied that they were doing it. I have no reason to believe that they were doing anything more than providing relief, and answering any qeuestions about belief that the locals might have asked. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/9 "2001-11-14T01:02:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \* > Imagine driving up to your local Church of Later Day Saints Funny, I’m not familiar with that church. 🙂 I **am** a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Is that what you meant? Note that this a false analogy. No one is claiming that the workers went into a Mosque during a meeting and proclaimed the divinity of Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/10 "2001-11-14T04:29:14Z")
For the Mercotan: [http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/06/afghan.aid.arrest/](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/06/afghan.aid.arrest/) > [@](#): > > Taliban officers reportedly seized a Bible, two computers, Christian literature translated into the local Dari language, cassettes and musical instruments. > > According to the U.S. State Department official, the group has been known for proselytizing for several years in Afghanistan. > > A spokesman for Vision for Asia in the United States said his group was concerned about the welfare of their workers and denied that they were proselytizing. > > “We happen to be a Christian-based organization, but our purpose for being in Afghanistan is to render assistance to the Afghan people. That has always been our main objective,” said Mike Heil of Vision for Asia office in Monroe, Michigan. > > The Taliban says it has statements from Afghans implicating the aid workers. > > Taliban radio said on Sunday the agency’s staff were arrested while trying to convert members of an Afghan Muslim family by showing them material about Christianity on a computer. [http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/08/12/taliban.sentences/](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/08/12/taliban.sentences/) > [@](#): > > Taliban denies access to aid workers > August 13, 2001 Posted: 9:36 AM EDT (1336 GMT) > > Earlier last week the Taliban displayed several Bibles translated into the local Dari language, as well as Christian films about the coming of Jesus Christ, also translated. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A39004-2001Aug6](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A39004-2001Aug6) > [@](#): > > Haqqani said two of the female aid workers – an American and an Australian – had confessed to being involved in converting Afghans to Christianity soon after they were arrested at a house belonging to an Afghan national in Kabul. [http://www.unfoundation.org/unwire/2001/08/07/index.asp#16525](http://www.unfoundation.org/unwire/2001/08/07/index.asp#16525) > [@](#): > > It was widely reported yesterday that the relief workers were from the US-based Christian agency Shelter Now International (SNI), but a statement from the agency yesterday said that the arrested workers were not from its staff, but were working for a German group with the same name. > > “Regarding the recent events in Kabul, a separate organization based in Germany has oversight of the office and personnel in Kabul,” the statement said. “The German organization has sometimes used the name Shelter Now without SNI’s permission, thus creating the confusion surrounding this incident” (Deutsche Presse-Agentur/ReliefWeb, 6 Aug). > > The Washington Post reports that the German-based agency is Vision for Asia. A spokesperson for the organization in the United States said his agency is concerned about the welfare of its workers and denied that they had been proselytizing. “We happen to be a Christian-based organization, but our purpose for being in Afghanistan is to render assistance to the Afghan people. That has always been our main objective,” said Mike Heil of the Vision for Asia office in Monroe, Michigan (Washington Post). > > The South China Morning Post reports that Shelter Now International, run by Vision for Asia, distributes humanitarian aid and builds makeshift shelters for poor Afghans. It also reports that the organization was previously run by the US-based group of the same name, but says the German group took charge of it several years ago after the US group was threatened for allegedly proselytizing in Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan. Norman Leatherwood, executive director of the Shelter Now office in Wisconsin, said the two groups have maintained contact but are not affiliated (South China Morning Post, 7 Aug). [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/melb2000/message/3233](http://groups.yahoo.com/group/melb2000/message/3233) > [@](#): > > August 8, 2001 > SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen > > \ > > However, Mike Heil, the North American spokesman for Vision for Asia, told the Citizen yesterday from his Michigan home that although he knows some of the eight detainees personally, his organization neither employs them nor operates any offices in Afghanistan. He said the eight work for a Shelter Now affiliate in Germany. > > \ > > He added that it would be impossible for Vision for Asia – because of its public campaign to convert the world to Christianity – to establish an office in Afghanistan given the Taliban’s uncompromising promotion of Islamic rule. > > The confusion over who employs the eight highlights the blurry line that appears to separate relief and missionary work among Christian charities operating in Asia. > > In the early 1990s, Shelter Now was forced to pull out of Pakistan after workers were accused of trying Christianize Muslim refugees from Afghanistan. > > The SNI’s Web site even includes information suggesting Christian aid workers are using humanitarian projects in Afghanistan as a guise for evangelizing the Muslim population. I have no clue which Shelter Now’s website it’s supposed to be referring to. The whole thing is starting to give me a headache. I suspect that somebody somewhere is waffling. And if Vision For Asia, in Monroe, Michigan, has a website, they’re keeping it a secret from Google. Anyway, I’d say that yeah, they were definitely proselytizing. The Taliban ain’t stupid. OTOH, it’s interesting to note that that “ **a** Bible” the day after the arrest had changed to “several Bibles” by the next week, and by the beginning of October it had changed to “thousands of Bibles”, in various other news reports. ---
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/11 "2001-11-14T17:50:46Z")
May I add that Monroe, MI is my hometown, and I’ve never even heard of “Vision for Asia”? They could have started it in the past two years while I’ve been at college, but… hmm. It might be just a little group that is run from a local church, though. God knows we have enough fundies in Monroe that would just love to shake up the Afghans. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/12 "2001-11-14T19:01:46Z")
Short answer to the question posed by the OP (Why preach Christianity in a Muslim country?): Because it isn’t optional. **Matthew 28:19-20** (NIV) \*“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” \* Longer answers provided by several prior posters. As emarkp said, sharing your beliefs with others is not the same pushing your beliefs upon them. It might be noted that conversion at sword- (or gun-) point most certainly is, and so is imposition of a code of religious laws. There was a thread a while back wherein the OP stated that people have no right to proselytize. Even several of the SDMB agnostics and atheists shot that one down in short order. RR ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/13 "2001-11-14T20:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*Anyway, I’d say that yeah, they were definitely proselytizing. The Taliban ain’t stupid. \*\* But they are intolerant, apparently. “Let’s hang people for talking about a different religion!” is not a recipe for success. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/14 "2001-11-15T02:11:13Z")
Thanks for all your efforts **DDG** , but except for one statement by the State dept. about worrying about the group proselytizing (and it’s unclear if said group was actually the group sponsoring the afghan activities), the rest of the data seems to come from the Taliban. I don’t know what I’m expecting, it’s unlikely a parent will declare “yes, she wrote us and said she’d converted 10 afghans already”. I’m still just not ready to presume guilt based on the information offered thus far. Again, thanks for your efforts on my behalf. I do appreciate them! QtM ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/15 "2001-11-15T03:52:10Z")
All I can say is that they showed zero common sense. I wasn’t that worried about people that stupid. Anyway, they are [safe now](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/11/14/gen.war.against.terror/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/16 "2001-11-15T04:48:12Z")
Well, **QM** , I’m also assuming that the possession of Bibles and other “Christian literature” in Dari meant something, too. If I were going to go work in Afghanistan, **my** Bible would be in English. The only reason, IMO, to take along a Dari Bible would be on the off-chance I might need to be able to show somebody, “See, you can look for yourself, right here…” and the usual context for that sort of conversation is a “witnessing” discussion. And that goes double for the possession of tracts (“Christian literature”) in Dari. Nah, they were proselytizing, all right. [shrug] ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/17 "2001-11-15T05:33:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rsa \* > \*\*All I can say is that they showed zero common sense. > \*\* …or possibly were seriously misinformed as to how dangerous Afganistan is. Aid agencies should be more careful. I respect their good works, but putting their people into harm’s way like that is just silly. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/18 "2001-11-15T05:54:49Z")
I keep thinking of my utter lack of sympathy for the main character in Midnight Express: what, where do you think the phrase “Turkish Prison” got its meaning? I can’t decide whether the aid workers were blissfully unaware of the severity of their crimes in Afghanistan, or whether they were trying to chalk up a big win, with martyrdom as a worst case scenario. I find it really, really hard to believe that they didn’t know they faced the death penalty for proselytizing, whether that witnessing was active (handing out bibles in Dari) or passive (being very forthcoming to questioning muslims). From my experience with born-again fundamentalists, especially young ones, I can believe that they worked themselves up into a fever pitch of faith, ready to flirt with martyrdom on their dangerous mission. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/19 "2001-11-15T17:49:03Z")
**Hansel** great post. I completely agree. First off ‘Midnight Express’ was a great movie and yes yes a complete lack of sympathy for the main character. As for the two Americans , I had never thought of them haveing a martyr wish, but they were young and they were quite excited! And after watching the preacher from the church they represented, a young guy full of verve and words from the Lord. If they were infact pushing Christianity, I’d believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128/20 "2001-11-15T20:58:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > **I keep thinking of my utter lack of sympathy for the main character in Midnight Express: what, where do you think the phrase “Turkish Prison” got its meaning?** Uh, didn’t the phrase “Turkish prison” get its meaning from the portrayal of Turkish prisons in Midnight Express? I don’t believe references to “Turkish prison” had any currency prior to the release of that movie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-would-you-preach-christianity-in-a-fundementalist-muslim-country/93128.md?page=2)