# WI State Senator To Introduce Bill To Require "BC" and "AD" in School Textbooks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217 "2006-02-19T17:04:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/21 "2006-02-20T00:29:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’ll see you your nitpicky nitpick and raise you an even nitpickier one: the variant of the BCE/CE system that’s used for astronomical year numbering **does** have a year 0. It also has negative integers in place of the BCE years. So the year 1 BCE is year 0 in the variant system, 2 BCE = -1, and so forth So can one have “-1 BCE”? Or “i^i BCE”? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/22 "2006-02-20T00:57:09Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > BCE and CE is not “politically correct,”… Indeed, one could make a case that, since “politically correct” terms are those used by politicians so as to offend as few of the electorate as possible, B.C. and A.D. are more accurately the politically correct ones. Hence this stupid attempt at legislation. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/23 "2006-02-20T01:36:01Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I don’t think the First Amendment would apply to privately printed textbooks. Correct. And how many copies of those textbooks are they likely to sell to people other than public schools? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/24 "2006-02-20T02:28:05Z")
Ayieee! It’s a War on Christianity[sup]tm[/sup]. To the O’Reilly Cave, Media Tempest Boy! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/25 "2006-02-20T10:08:09Z")
> [@Gorilla Man](#): > > So can one have “-1 BCE”? Or “i^i BCE”? No no no no—that would just be **confusing**! 😉 Seriously, one says either “the year 2 BCE” or “the year -1”. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/26 "2006-02-20T14:29:42Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Really nitpicky nitpick: there’s no year 0. It goes 2BC - 1BC - 1AD - 2AD (or BCE/CE if you prefer 🙂 ) Yay, I get to nitpick a nitpick. In fact, it goes from 1 BC to AD 1; note that AD is properly placed BEFORE the year. This is another reason why people like BCE/CE - both are placed after the year, where AD (almost) always incorrectly ends up anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Boggette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@Boggette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boggette)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/27 "2006-02-20T17:36:44Z")
Just imagine the expense involved in changing all these textbooks. Just what we need. To spend more money to edit them and get everyone the new books. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/28 "2006-02-20T17:40:55Z")
> [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > In fact, it goes from 1 BC to AD 1; note that AD is properly placed BEFORE the year. Only if you’re worried about the Latin. Chambers & Cambridge dictionaries both list either positioning of ‘AD’ as equally acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/29 "2006-02-20T18:50:33Z")
Or you could go the hardcore archaeological route and call everything “YA”, for Years Ago. Of course, you’d have to update your textbooks every year or so, but voila, no religion at all (except for those heathen sun-worshipping types.) ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/30 "2006-02-20T18:57:06Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Or you could go the hardcore archaeological route and call everything “YA”, for Years Ago. Of course, you’d have to update your textbooks every year or so, but voila, no religion at all (except for those heathen sun-worshipping types.) Oh yeah, right, like anyone could believe there were dinosaurs living 100 mya when everyone KNOWS the earth was created in six days 6000\* years ago. \*Or however long ago creationists say it was created. I forget. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/31 "2006-02-20T19:02:13Z")
Ahem. “Jesus Horses”, please. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/32 "2006-02-20T19:20:54Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Really nitpicky nitpick: there’s no year 0. It goes 2BC - 1BC - 1AD - 2AD (or BCE/CE if you prefer 🙂 ) Really, how cool would it be to be living in the year 0. Imagine, waking up, starting your day, walking outside to the box to pick up your morning papyrus, and thinking to yourself “It starts now. Yesiree, it all starts here. Year zero here I am!!!” Taking in a big breath, pounding your chest, waving to the neighbor kids. Man, that would be one lucky person. At least until the neighbor pokes up over the fence and says “Didn’t you read your papyrus yet? The Senate ruled that we are starting at year one.” Stupid Flanders. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/33 "2006-02-20T21:48:20Z")
Too late now, but Isaac Asimov once suggested it would make more sense to date everything from the first Olympiad (776 B.C.), the earliest historical date known with definite certainty relative to the Christian calendar; that would encompass more recorded history without those awkward backwards-counting dates. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/34 "2006-02-20T23:35:48Z")
My anthropology teacher opines that nothing significant happened at year zero. The birth of Christ is insignificant in the scheme of Christianity. He was thirty before he made an impact and he was long dead before a church was established ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/35 "2006-02-21T01:45:58Z")
From: [http://www.shepherd-express.com/2\_16\_06/newsandviews.htm](http://www.shepherd-express.com/2_16_06/newsandviews.htm) > [@](#): > > Almost perfectly illustrating her point is another bill recently introduced in the state Legislature. Written by Sen. Tom Reynolds (R-West Allis), **it would fine any school district that uses textbooks that use the secular terms** B.C.E. (Before the Common Era) and C.E. (Common Era) instead of B.C. (Before Christ) and A.D. (anno domini, or “in the year of our Lord”). Oh my. Now he wants to _fine_ the public schools if they don’t comply! My head hurts. Depressing me further, a couple of state legislators who got busted for corruption either got jail time or house arrest for their punishment, _not prison time_! I soooo wanted to have those legislators (a democrat and 2 republicans) as my patients! ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/36 "2006-02-21T02:04:21Z")
As a Jew, I’ve always used BCE / CE as far back as I can remember, because it would be bad Jewish practice to count years by reference to another religion’s Deity. If the state senator really doesn’t like using BCE / CE, then how about if he has Wisconsin adopt the French Revolutionary calendar? ---
**Author:** ![ethanwinfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/96bed5/32.png) [@ethanwinfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethanwinfield)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/37 "2006-02-21T04:01:40Z")
Is this really an issue? To satisfy my own curiousity, I got out my review copies of Holt and Prentice Hall. Then I checked Houghton Mifflin and McDougal Littell (a division of Houghton Mifflin. All of them use BC/AD with regard to dates. In my brief review, only Holt had page addressing the BCE/CE dating system. It defines BCE as, “another way to refer to BC dates; it stands for ‘before common era.’” Of course it talks about things that happened 3 million years ago, so I’m not sure the senator would approve. I am tempted to write a letter to the senator. How can the fine citizens of his state justify taking money away from school districts simply because the best textbook uses the BCE/CE dating system? ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/38 "2006-02-21T14:40:00Z")
The easy solution would be to define “C. E.” to mean “Christian Era”, and then everyone will be happy. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/39 "2006-02-21T14:44:44Z")
I’m thinkin’ about placing a bill banning the use of Fahrenheit thermometers, myself. “Is One a Good Year?” ``` -- Zero Mostel, in the filmed version of **A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum**. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217/40 "2006-02-21T16:27:02Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > The easy solution would be to define “C. E.” to mean “Christian Era”, and then everyone will be happy. It’s so simple it will never work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wi-state-senator-to-introduce-bill-to-require-bc-and-ad-in-school-textbooks/345217.md?page=3)