# Wichita, Kansas, the Kansas State Republican Party and FLAMING IDIOCY\` **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323 "2012-11-08T03:24:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/1 "2012-11-08T03:24:30Z")
Well… One of the issues that this election has proven is going to become a larger issue than a single city is floridation. Why do I know this? Because in this day and age, it was possible to convince [60% of the electorate in a large American city that floridating the water was wron](http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/07/2560106/day-after-victory-wichita-fluoridation.html)g. And now the asshole idiots behind this “victory” for pain and suffering are promising they’ll be taking their campaign nationally. What particularly pisses me off is that the Kansas State Republican Party got behind this. Any support for anti-floridation is utterly unconscionable IMNSHO. I don’t give a shit about the claims about ‘no medicine I don’t want.’ Fuck that noise. If they really feel that way: STOP USING PUBLIC WATER. It’s been sterilized, after all. Often with chemical agents. Just as often with EVIL RADIATION. When these goddamned idiots can claim to be worried about saving public moneys on cheap-ass preventative projects like this and keep being willing to spend huge amounts on “Fix it now that it’s COMPLETELY FUBAR” projects, I find their claims of fiscal conservatism to be utterly threadbare. That a state-wide party was willing to support this idiocy does nothing to change my view of the current GOP as a party of idiots, racists, and assholes. I really don’t give a flying fuck which particular reason for their support any individual might have. There is no good, rational reason for this position that I can recognize. Can go back to a country where there was at least some lip-service from both parties to the idea of “public good?” ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/2 "2012-11-08T03:52:06Z")
I don’t know diddly about this, but since all (?) toothpaste has fluoride in it these days, isn’t putting it in the water as well a waste of money? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/3 "2012-11-08T03:57:31Z")
That presupposes that you’re brushing your teeth on a regular schedule. Even in families where the parents believe that to be an important daily ritual - the target age group (3-11) is the age where evading that requirement is all out of proportion popular. I know I skipped brushing my teeth far too often around that age, and I believe it to be a fairly common complaint from dentists. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/4 "2012-11-08T04:19:31Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > That presupposes that you’re brushing your teeth on a regular schedule. Even in families where the parents believe that to be an important daily ritual - the target age group (3-11) is the age where evading that requirement is all out of proportion popular. I know I skipped brushing my teeth far too often around that age, and I believe it to be a fairly common complaint from dentists. How many kids of that age are drinking enough water to make the fluoride worth it? Particularly tap water. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/5 "2012-11-08T04:49:07Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Well… > > One of the issues that this election has proven is going to become a larger issue than a single city is floridation. Why do I know this? > > Because in this day and age, it was possible to convince [60% of the electorate in a large American city that floridating the water was wron](http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/07/2560106/day-after-victory-wichita-fluoridation.html)g. And now the asshole idiots behind this “victory” for pain and suffering are promising they’ll be taking their campaign nationally. > > What particularly pisses me off is that the Kansas State Republican Party got behind this. Any support for anti-floridation is utterly unconscionable IMNSHO. I don’t give a shit about the claims about ‘no medicine I don’t want.’ Fuck that noise. If they really feel that way: STOP USING PUBLIC WATER. It’s been sterilized, after all. Often with chemical agents. Just as often with EVIL RADIATION. > > When these goddamned idiots can claim to be worried about saving public moneys on cheap-ass preventative projects like this and keep being willing to spend huge amounts on “Fix it now that it’s COMPLETELY FUBAR” projects, I find their claims of fiscal conservatism to be utterly threadbare. That a state-wide party was willing to support this idiocy does nothing to change my view of the current GOP as a party of idiots, racists, and assholes. I really don’t give a flying fuck which particular reason for their support any individual might have. There is no good, rational reason for this position that I can recognize. > > Can go back to a country where there was at least some lip-service from both parties to the idea of “public good?” Well, Wichita has never had fluoridated water, apparently with little ill effect. But you’re right this is a good thing. And like all good things, it will cost money. What other program promoting the public good should be scaled back so Wichita can afford to do this good thing? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/6 "2012-11-08T05:36:38Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, Wichita has never had fluoridated water, apparently with little ill effect. Where do you get that from? If you had bothered to do any reading about how this issue got put before the electorate now, you’d have seen that there is a perception among the dental and medical health professionals that there is an ill effect on the general health of the population. > [@article linked further down in this post](#): > > According to the 2012 Smiles Across Kansas report by the Kansas Bureau of Oral Health, 58 percent of children in south-central Kansas have had cavities, making it the worst region in the state for cavities. “As South Central Kansas has many of the same advantages of the North East region (a large dental professional community, multiple safety net dental clinics, local foundations and academic institutions with interests in oral health),” the report says, “the lack of community water fluoridation is a probable causal factor for the significantly higher level of disease in Wichita’s children.” The plan had been to seek Federal grants if available, and then pass the cost on to the consumer. The start up costs are listed in [this article](http://www.kansas.com/2012/10/20/2539676/questions-and-answers-before-wichitas.html) as about $2.3 million. Operational costs are estimated to add less than a dollar a month to residential water bills, and the higher end of that increase also includes covering the start-up costs. So, going by the 2010 demographic data I got from Wikipedia that’s about $12/year for 150,000 households, or $1.8 million annually from residential customers - and to pull a number of out my ass we’ll double that for the industrial/retail customers in the city (That’s an aggregate, obviously, and a guess. I freely admit that industrial/retail customers will have higher water usage, but I doubt there are as many of them as there are residential customers.) so for back of the envelope estimate about $3.6 million for annual costs. Call it $5 million annually to give me a fudge factor. I realize that pain and suffering don’t matter, so I won’t touch on that. When you consider that part of the push for this is to improve dental health for many of the poorest residents in the city one has to expect that at least _some_ of the $25 million in expected savings in dental work will be money saved from the local Medicaid program. Which might be considered a benefit to the public coffers by some foolish people. Probably the same bleeding heart assholes who think that pain and suffering do matter. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/7 "2012-11-08T05:58:28Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Where do you get that from? If you had bothered to do any reading about how this issue got put before the electorate now, you’d have seen that there is a perception among the dental and medical health professionals that there is an ill effect on the general health of the population. Look, I’m not going to float that there’s some big conspiracy, but I know enough that when what you’ve got is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. Lawyers will tend to see opportunities for litigation. Doctors and dentists will tend to see potential public health initiatives. In general, these are good faith proposals. But a lawyer probably overvalues (or underestimates the costs and burdens) of litigation. And doctors and dentists tend to overvalue (or underestimate the costs and burdens) of treatment. This is human nature, and it’s particularly easy to do when you yourself don’t have to bear the costs and burdens. Now, here, you talk of “a perception among the dental and medical health professionals.” OK, well, do they have any data to back up their perceptions. Not saying their being deceptive, but two million bucks is a lot to spend on a hunch, even if I totally trust Dr. Smiley, DDS. (The good old public health/taxing authority industrial complex.) > [@](#): > > he plan had been to seek Federal grants if available, and then pass the cost on to the consumer. The start up costs are listed in this article as about $2.3 million. Operational costs are estimated to add less than a dollar a month to residential water bills, and the higher end of that increase also includes covering the start-up costs. So, going by the 2010 demographic data I got from Wikipedia that’s about $12/year for 150,000 households, or $1.8 million annually from residential customers And while you’re comfortable liberating $2 millions bucks per year from the wallets of Wichita because there’s a hunch that maybe this is a good idea, perhaps those Wichita residents already have uses for that money that they think are equally worthwhile. At any rate, you’re not sure that they ought to be given a choice in the matter. But you did answer the question: What would be cut to pay for this? Nothing. We’ll just make everybody pay a little more. Whether they want it or not. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/8 "2012-11-08T13:52:06Z")
How dare those people not vote to change things from the way they are now! ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/9 "2012-11-08T14:53:52Z")
Wichita’s water has never been fluoridated? I’m off to wonder how in heck I got fluoride spots in the adult teeth that I grew while living there. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/10 "2012-11-08T15:19:42Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > Wichita’s water has never been fluoridated? > > I’m off to wonder how in heck I got fluoride spots in the adult teeth that I grew while living there. Weird. Maybe somebody is/was dumping fluoride into the water supply anyway. There aren’t that many Democrats around that area so I blame the Libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/11 "2012-11-08T15:44:50Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Maybe somebody is/was dumping fluoride into the water supply anyway. There aren’t that many Democrats around that area so I blame the Libertarians. I find it hard to believe that even sneaky Libertarians could dump chemicals into the public water supply without somebody noticing. Maybe I swallowed too much toothpaste. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/12 "2012-11-08T21:37:30Z")
A few years ago, when I was living in Oregon, I went to the dentist. She took one look at my teeth and said, “You’re not from around here, are you”? I asked her how she knew (I’d actually grown up in Texas), and she said it was because my teeth didn’t have the microcavities that the locals all had- because the local water wasn’t fluoridated. So yeah, that dentist, at least, though fluoridation is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/13 "2012-11-08T22:56:49Z")
I believe this has been discussed before, but flouridation doesn’t have a particularly impressive scientific foundation. If it has positive effects, they’re not particularly reliable. So maybe - just _maybe_ - you might consider that possibly they think it’s a nonsensical waste dumping mildly toxic chemicals in the water for a dubious health ebenfit. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/14 "2012-11-08T23:34:35Z")
I fully support the OP. The anti fluoride nuts can go join the anti vaccination nuts and the barefoot running nuts over in the corner. And don’t come out until you’re ready to change your ways! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/15 "2012-11-09T01:22:02Z")
No _Doctor Strangelove_ jokes yet? I’m astonished… ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/16 "2012-11-09T01:36:57Z")
Well, as we all know, [flouride \*is \*a pineal gland blocker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=663863&highlight=flouride). ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/17 "2012-11-10T01:43:21Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > How many kids of that age are drinking enough water to make the fluoride worth it? Particularly tap water. I didn’t get an answer to this. Also, in reading the other posts, it doesn’t sound like the benefits justify the cost. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/18 "2012-11-10T01:49:30Z")
No, I just got tired of offering evidence that was being handwaved away by conspiracy theories and other such hard evidence. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/19 "2012-11-10T01:57:57Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > No, I just got tired of offering evidence that was being handwaved away by conspiracy theories and other such hard evidence. Fuck you. If this is in response to my post and is your usual way of answering a simple question, I think I’ve discovered why it is that your evidence is waved away. Anyone else care to tell me why it is that people are expected to pay so much for what appears to be little return? I grew up without fluoride in my water, and managed to make it until I was 12 before I needed to go to the dds. Two million dollars is a heck of a lot of money, the program only targets a portion of the population, and it doesn’t appear that it is all that critical. Seems the money would be better spent elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323/20 "2012-11-10T02:08:15Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > floridation > floridating > anti-floridation I wouldn’t want the government putting Florida in my water, either. People are cray cray down there. 😉 hint: it’s _fl **u** oridation_, from fluoride, a compound of the element fluorine [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wichita-kansas-the-kansas-state-republican-party-and-flaming-idiocy/640323.md?page=2)