# Wicked Witch = smart, Glinda = dumb **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 16, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732 "2001-07-16T23:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/1 "2001-07-16T23:16:39Z")
Evil = brilliant and good = dumb? I present as my evidence MGM’s 1939 classic _The Wizard of Oz_. During her first encounter with Dorothy, Glinda (the Good Witch of the North) was _so dumb_ she couldn’t tell the difference between a dog and a witch: **Glinda** : Are you a good witch, or a bad witch? **Dorothy** : Who, me! I - I’m not a witch at all. I’m Dorothy Gale, from Kansas. **Glinda** : Oh! Well, is that the witch? **Dorothy** : Who, Toto? Toto’s my dog. Dorothy had to explain to Glinda that her 4-legged friend was a dog. Idiot! Anyway, the Wicked Witch of the West knew instantly what Toto was: **Wicked Witch** : Very well, I’ll bide my time - and as for you, my fine lady. It’s true I can’t attend to you here and now as I’d like, but just try to stay out of my way - just try! I’ll get you, my pretty, _and your little dog, too!_ She knew it was a dog! Uh, can you tell I’m watching too much of my children’s movies? ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/2 "2001-07-16T23:37:23Z")
Gregory Maguire wrote a book called “Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West” which is a re-telling of the Oz story from the “bad witches” point of view. The work is BRILLIANT. The supposedly “wicked witch” simply gets a bad rap because of her skin condition (green) and political viewpoint that Animals should be treated like people. In the novel, animals talk and hold jobs just like humans, so it’s not that far-fetched. Glinda is a typical blonde bimbo in the novel, who’s a flop at casting spells…just like she is in the movie. You’ve GOT to read it. -L ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/3 "2001-07-16T23:37:37Z")
And just why exactly can’t a dog be a witch? ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/4 "2001-07-16T23:43:39Z")
Because it doesn’t weigh the same as a duck! ---
**Author:** ![domina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@domina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/domina)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/5 "2001-07-17T00:27:52Z")
1. Oz hasn’t seen a tornado before, so Glinda assumes the falling house must be magical. When Dorothy disavows witchhood, Glinda figures the dog must be magical. After all, these are foreigners; maybe they come from the Land of Magic Dogs. 2. I _think_, if I remember my Oz books correctly, witches have the power to transform themselves into different shapes. (I know they can transform other people, since one turned Ozma into a boy.) Maybe she figures Toto is a witch who took dog form for some reason. 3. In Oz, most animals have intelligence and can talk. In fact, I think Toto started talking in one of the later books. If animals can think and talk, it isn’t such a great leap to doing magic. BTW, SexyWriter, is the book you mentioned based on the book or the movie of The Wizard of Oz? In the book Glinda and the Good Witch of the North were two different people, and they were both rather different from the movie character. ---
**Author:** ![StephenG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@StephenG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StephenG)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/6 "2001-07-17T00:31:32Z")
To amplify **matt\_mcl** ’s point, Toto could easily have been a witch. I’ve read at least one SF story, and quite possibly more than one, where the “animal” was equal to or superior to the humans in terms of capabilities and intelligence. I’m thinking of one in particular, but can’t quite recall which one. It was quite possibly by Robert Heinlein or Piers Anthony. (_The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_, and other stories featuring Pixel are appropriate, but not what I’m thinking of.) I think Glinda was being _more_ observant, by being open to the possibility that Toto was the witch. Dorothy (and her little dog, too!) had clearly come from off-world, so all assumptions as to their roles and abilities were off. The “Wicked” Witch (what was her name, btw?) was the close-minded one making unfounded (though valid) assumptions. Note: There are quite probably fictional and factual examples of instances where the antagonist is more intelligent than the protagonist. [sub] **ENugent** , does that mean that it doesn’t float?\*\*[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/7 "2001-07-17T00:45:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by domina \* > \*\*BTW, SexyWriter, is the book you mentioned based on the book or the movie of The Wizard of Oz? In the book Glinda and the Good Witch of the North were two different people, and they were both rather different from the movie character. \*\* I think it leans more heavily toward the book, but it’s been so long since I read them that it’s a little fuzzy now. I should re-read! I didn’t want to go into great detail and sound like I was doing a book report, but I think you’d appreciate the “WICKED” version. The same author also wrote, “Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister.” Cinderella from the point of view of one of the stepsisters. I think he’s great! ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/8 "2001-07-17T06:48:47Z")
**ENugent** Thanks for giving me the belly laugh of the night!! ---
**Author:** ![Protesilaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Protesilaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Protesilaus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/9 "2001-07-17T09:10:46Z")
If a dog can be a [saint](http://people.bu.edu/dklepper/RN242/guinefort.html), there’s no reason one couldn’t be a witch. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/10 "2001-07-17T09:56:07Z")
I actually was on a panel discussion with Maguire at a sci-fi con talking about Oz. Neat guy. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChoosyChipsAndCeilingWhacks)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/11 "2001-07-17T11:34:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*I actually was on a panel discussion with Maguire at a sci-fi con talking about Oz. Neat guy. > > Esprix \*\* Oooooh! Lucky you! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/12 "2001-07-17T11:50:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SexyWriter \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by domina \* > > \*\*BTW, SexyWriter, is the book you mentioned based on the book or the movie of The Wizard of Oz? \ \*\* > > I think it leans more heavily toward the book, but it’s been so long since I read them that it’s a little fuzzy now. I should re-read! > \*\* Much more towards the book. He pulls in all sorts of weird little details from later books (the Krumbric(sp) Witch thing comes from one of Baum’s last books), etc. The only problem I had with the book was the ending which, I felt, kinda dribbled off. Other than that, I liked Wicked too. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/13 "2001-07-17T12:35:28Z")
Salman Rushdie wrote a little book on appreciation of the _Wizard of Oz_ movie. From the point of view of fashion sense, he said, Glinda does not compare well to the Wicked Witch: > [@](#): > > **Frilly pink versus slimline black. _No contest!_** ---
**Author:** ![The\_Witch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e7dd6/32.png) [@The\_Witch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Witch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/14 "2001-07-17T13:57:59Z")
_Wicked_ was excellent, as was _Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister_. Generally speaking, any book that takes the side of the “evil” witch/woman is usually far more entertaining than the original story. Take, for example _The Mists of Avalon_ by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Granted it was just made into a mini-series on TNT (which could count against it except they did a pretty decent job), but it tells such a richer story than the simplistic Arthur good, Morgan Le Fay bad versions. I think that evil is in the eye of the beholder, and the stupid people paint smarter ones as evil to justify their own stupidity. Ha! (guess which kind I am . . .) :eek: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Witch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e7dd6/32.png) [@The\_Witch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Witch)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/15 "2001-07-17T18:24:34Z")
I take that back. Some people really are evil. Like Hitler and Britney Spears . . . ---
**Author:** ![SqrlCub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SqrlCub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SqrlCub)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2001, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wicked-witch-smart-glinda-dumb/72732/16 "2001-07-17T20:24:44Z")
I read both Wicked and Memoirs of an Ugly Stepsister. They were both a good read. Wicked only reinforced my view that Glinda was evil. “Mwuhahahah Dorothy, you had the way home the whole time.” Dorothy, “You bitch!” Glinda, “You see Dorothy, when I said I was a good witch in the beginning, I was not referring to my demeanor, only that I know how to be a witch well.” Then Glinda hurries her off before the murderous Dorothy offs her too. Afterall she was only looking after her best interests and getting rid of all the competition while she was at it. HUGS! Sqrl