# Wieners and weiners **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216 "2009-12-31T20:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/1 "2009-12-31T20:00:59Z")
‘Wiener’, of course, is a person from Wien (Vienna). It is also short for Wienerwurst – Vienna sausage; or in common usage, a hot dog. But many people spell it w **ei** ner; which should be pronounced ‘wine-er’. M-W says that ‘weiner’ is an acceptable alternative spelling for ‘wiener’. My automatic spell-check objects. When did ‘weiner’ become an acceptable spelling? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/2 "2009-12-31T20:09:23Z")
When Americans couldn’t be bothered to deal with foreign spellings. (PS V and W are pronounced differently in English than German. Wiener is pronounced VEEN-er, using U.S. phonetic spelling; weiner, if it were really a German word, would be pronounced VINE-er. Volkswagen is pronounced like FOKES-vagon.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/3 "2009-12-31T20:12:03Z")
Don’t get me started on Anheuser-Busch or Löwenbräu! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/4 "2009-12-31T21:03:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Weiner’, of course, is a person from Wien (Vienna). It is also short for Wienerwurst – Vienna sausage; or in common usage, a hot dog. > > But many people spell it w **ei** ner; which should be pronounced ‘wine-er’. M-W says that ‘weiner’ is an acceptable alternative spelling for ‘wiener’. My automatic spell-check objects. > > When did ‘weiner’ become an acceptable spelling? It didn’t. I suspect M-W says a lot of stupid things. I’ll ponder that this afternoon while I’m getting my lunch at _Das_ Wienerschnitzel. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/5 "2009-12-31T21:21:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’ll ponder that this afternoon while I’m getting my lunch at _Das_ Wienerschnitzel. Of course they ‘corrected’ that when they changed their name to just Wienerschnitzel. I’ve never found a Wienerschnitzel that actually sold Wienerschnitzel. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/6 "2009-12-31T21:30:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Weiner’, of course, is a person from Wien (Vienna OTOH, Norbert Wiener was _neither_ a Weiner nor a ‘hot dog’. He was an [an American pure and applied mathematician.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/7 "2009-12-31T21:32:04Z")
I’d hate to go through life, where whenever I enter a room someone says ‘Wiener-dude alert! Wiener-dude alert!’ ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/8 "2009-12-31T21:59:19Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > … weiner, if it were really a German word, would be pronounced VINE-er. … It could be said to be _potential_ German word - if people used it, making it an actual German word, the meaning would be ‘weeping male’. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/9 "2009-12-31T23:41:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > When did ‘weiner’ become an acceptable spelling? > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It didn’t. > > I suspect M-W says a lot of stupid things. Actually, M-W doesn’t say many stupid things. Perhaps they should have said “an alternative spelling.” My reading of grocery adds from the 1930s-1950s show a 3-1 useage of _wiener_ over _weiner._ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/10 "2009-12-31T23:45:08Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Perhaps they should have said “an alternative spelling.” Actually, it says ‘variant of _wiener_’. But by virtue of its being included as a ‘variant’, I concluded that it is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/11 "2010-01-01T00:07:12Z")
You concluded incorrectly; Merriam-Webster does not attempt to judge whether a spelling is “acceptable” or not, only whether it’s extant. There is no such permissiveness in the American Heritage Dictionary, which has no entry for “weiner.” Incidentally, there is a legitimate “Weiner” – it’s Yiddish for "wine merchant,"and apparently the Silesian variant of “Wagner.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/12 "2010-01-01T04:16:59Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Actually, M-W doesn’t say many stupid things. Well, okay, I guess. I just figured that if they did say “weiner” is an acceptable spelling of “wiener,” they’d be apt to say just about any number of things. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/13 "2010-01-01T04:28:31Z")
I’m _definintely_ with my pal on _this_ one! :rolleyes:🙂 And I have to add that I do NOT fiied "wienie or (“weenie”)-dogs (for dachshunds) amusing, as I am sure they wouldn’t if they could let us know! 😉 **That** one and “dash-hounds”! :rolleyes: Quasi ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/14 "2010-01-01T04:40:47Z")
Children are taught in elementary school… I before E, except after C" is a mnemonic device devised to help students remember how to spell certain words in the English language. > **[I before E except after C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_before_E_except_after_C)** > > "I before E, except after C" is a mnemonic rule of thumb for English spelling. If one is unsure whether a word is spelled with the digraph ei or ie, the rhyme suggests that the correct order is ie unless the preceding letter is c, in which case it may be ei. > The rhyme is very well known; Edward Carney calls it "this supreme, and for many people solitary, spelling rule". However, the short form quoted above has many common exceptions; for example: > The proportion of exceptions can be reduced by... So, yes I’d spell it Wieners. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule. But, those elementary school mnemonics helped me get through college. Without them I couldn’t spell poop. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terra1041](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Terra1041](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terra1041)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/15 "2010-01-01T04:57:24Z")
Yeah, but what about “weird”? Wiener = “_vee_-nah” Weiner = “_vy_-nah” Neither word has the English W sound, either. Oh, and I’ve been lurking here for years, since 2005 or so, and just registered today. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/16 "2010-01-01T05:07:38Z")
There’s a mnemonic for that too. 😉 ``` i before e except after c unless you're being weird i before e except after c or when sounded like a as in neighbor and weigh ``` These exceptions are why I struggled with spelling. Rules mean little. Good spellers have excellent memories and learn this stuff by rote. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/17 "2010-01-01T06:36:11Z")
“Weiner” gets about 17MM hits on Google, whereas “wiener” gets 28MM, so it’s less common but hardly unheard-of. My wild-ass guess is that, as a proper name, Weiner is at least as common in the US as Wiener. And now I’m thinking of Doug and Wendy Whiner from SNL. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/18 "2010-01-01T12:56:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Weiner’, of course, is a person from Wien (Vienna). It is also short for Wienerwurst – Vienna sausage; or in common usage, a hot dog. Actually, it’s W **ie** ner, not W **ei** ner, like in the thread title 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xotan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/278dde/32.png) [@Xotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xotan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/19 "2010-01-01T15:29:54Z")
I absolutely refuse to bring up the difference between Schiessen and Scheissen. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216/20 "2010-01-01T18:14:37Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Actually, it’s W **ie** ner, not W **ei** ner, like in the thread title 🙂 You are correct. I intended to type ie; not ei. I made a typo. I’ve reported my OP and asked that a mod correct my typo to avoid confusion. . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wieners-and-weiners/523216.md?page=2)