# Wikileaks has released the documents **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198 "2010-11-28T19:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/61 "2010-11-29T22:22:10Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > You really do gotta love the hilarity of the straw-clutching ‘endangering lives’ punchline the US govt have been futilely trying to drown the leaks out with when they themselves have been making wholesale SAC > > ```php > > ``` > > RIFICES of this very ‘commodity’ for time immemorial[!!](http://instantrimshot.com/) Wow. Excellent point! ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/62 "2010-11-30T06:05:46Z")
From a 01/25/2010 cable from our Kazakhstan embassy: > **[Full-text search](https://search.wikileaks.org/plusd/)** > [@](#): > > 1. (S) The Ambassador asked if the corruption and infighting are worse now than before. Idenov paused, thought, and then replied, “No, not really. It’s business as usual.” Idenov brushed off a question if the current maneuverings are part of a succession struggle. “Of course not. It’s too early for that. As it’s always been, it’s about big money. Capitalism – you call it market economy – means huge money. Listen, almost everyone at the top is confused. They’re confused by their Soviet mentality. They’re confused by the corrupt excesses of capitalism. ‘If Goldman Sachs executives can make $50 million a year and then run America’s economy in Washington, what’s so different about what we do?’ they ask.” ---
**Author:** ![AmunRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AmunRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmunRa)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/63 "2010-11-30T06:41:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Oh, we are through the looking glass here gentlemen, wheels within wheels. Riddles within _ **enemas** _, who’s zoomin’ who? Wait, what? :dubious: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/64 "2010-11-30T13:23:18Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > hang on…this all fits. No material damage for the US, nothing that anyone didn’t think was already going on, plenty to embarrass other countries, The leaks show the USA being “strong like bull”…who really benefits here? Will the CIA suddenly want billions to beef up security and handle the fallout? > > Oh, we are through the looking glass here gentlemen, wheels within wheels. Riddles within enemas, who’s zoomin’ who? > > And this shadowy Assange figure? like that…poof!..he’s gone. > > (I’m not serious, but still…) Oh, you are plenty serious my friend - it is the art of disinformation taken to a whole new level - just like your non-denial denial. This makes the multiple layers of Inception look like a Denny’s placemat maze. edit - now we know what happened to the Usual Suspects sequel - Kaiser Soze was transmogrified into Assange. ---
**Author:** ![Ocardowin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ccd318/32.png) [@Ocardowin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocardowin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/65 "2010-11-30T14:06:56Z")
I don’t think people fully understand the dangers of 1) charging Assange with espionage and/or 2) designating wikileaks a terrorist org. Man oh man, that would be the biggest step toward a police state since…Alien/Sedition? And this one would be unlikely to be undone. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/66 "2010-11-30T15:43:17Z")
Everyone who thinks this is some sort of CIA trick: How exactly does that work? Is Bradley Manning a willing dupe who’s willing to spend decades if not his entire life in a federal penitentiary in order to pull off this trick? What about the cable indicating that the U.S. has been bombing Yemen and then pressuring the Yemen government to take responsibility for it? How does that bit of information help the U.S.? Won’t that generate more resentment and possibly more terrorism aimed at us? What about that helicopter video? How did that help the U.S.? Some of you seem to think that outfits like the CIA have near absolute control over everything we see and hear. I just don’t buy it. It makes no sense to me. Obviously we need to be discriminating about what we hear, but that’s also true for conspiracy theories. Let’s see what happens when he releases the bank info he has. I doubt that the CIA wants to harm a major U.S. bank. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/67 "2010-11-30T19:10:31Z")
Interestingly, [wikileaks is currently based on servers within the US](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/30/wikileaks-hit-by-powerful-cyber-attack/). Which either means an all powerful CIA plot is supporting wikileaks against an attack by America’s enemies who saw through the deception or the US is respecting Constitutional guarantees of free speech even for information it desperately wishes wasn’t being released. Which explanation you choose is up to you. I just found it interesting that despite how often Assange has made claims the US is out to destroy him, currently the government is leaving his shit alone even though it is based in US jurisdiction at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/68 "2010-11-30T19:27:18Z")
Or there’s little point in taking down a U.S. based server since there are mirrors all over the world. Or the U.S. is actually afraid of him because of what’s in that encrypted insurance file that no doubt currently resides on private hard drives all over the planet waiting for the release of a key phrase. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/69 "2010-11-30T20:58:28Z")
Iran Calls Leaked Documents a U.S. Plot > **[Iran Calls Leaked Documents a U.S. Plot (Published 2010)](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/world/middleeast/30iran.html?_r=1&ref=world)** > > President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the documents would not damage Iran’s relations with its neighbors. > [@](#): > > TEHRAN — In Iran’s first official reaction to leaked State Department cables quoting Arab leaders as urging the United States to bomb Tehran’s nuclear facilities, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad dismissed the documents as American psychological warfare that would not affect his country’s relations with other nations, news reports said. > > The documents seemed to show several Arab nations, notably Saudi Arabia, Iran’s rival for influence in the Persian Gulf, displaying such hostility that King Abdullah repeatedly implored Washington to “cut off the head of the snake” while there was still time. Sure Mahmoud, whatever you say. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/70 "2010-11-30T21:58:59Z")
“We Have Not Seen Anything Yet,” Guardian Editor Says Most Startling WikiLeaks Cables To Be Released Very good video report: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOxZiDALQlg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOxZiDALQlg) > [@](#): > > “In the coming days, we are going to see some quite startling disclosures about Russia, the nature of the Russian state, and about bribery and corruption in other countries, particularly in Central Asia,” says Investigations Executive Editor David Leigh at the Guardian, one of the three newspapers given advanced access to the secret U.S. embassy cables by the whistleblower website, WikiLeaks. “We will see a wrath of disclosures about pretty terrible things going on around the world.” ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/71 "2010-11-30T22:32:34Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Iran Calls Leaked Documents a U.S. Plot In all fairness in Ahmadenijad’s eye’s _everything_ is a US plot. He’s not really singling out wikileaks here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/72 "2010-12-01T07:17:10Z")
[Here’s what Secretary of Defense Robert Gates has to say about this.](http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2010/11/quotable-secretary-gates-on-wi/) I’m aware that the supposed ‘damage’ done by these disclosures isn’t as big an issue in this thread, and I’ve already posted this link and quote in The Pit, but it might spark some interesting comment here as well: > [@](#): > > **The fact is, governments deal with the United States because it’s in their interest, not because they like us, not because they trust us, and not because they believe we can keep secrets.** > > Many governments – some governments deal with us because they fear us, some because they respect us, most because they need us. We are still essentially, as has been said before, the indispensable nation. So other nations will continue to deal with us. They will continue to work with us. We will continue to share sensitive information with one another. Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest. Really, though, it’s worthwhile to follow the link and read the whole thing. He has a fairly long spiel on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/73 "2010-12-01T07:50:33Z")
Well, that’s Gates’ spin. I personally think there’s likely already been some damage done. For example, there were reasons for having Yemen take responsibility for those bombings. Whether or not they were _good_ reasons is another argument. North Korea learning that China apparently won’t go out of their way to prevent a collapse and reunification may make them a little less bold, so that could actually be a good result from this. Hillary Clinton apparently being behind orders to gather personal info - credit card numbers, etc. - on UN representatives is embarrassing at the least. Keep in mind that only a small fraction have been released so far. Who knows what we’ll learn. Who knows what’s in the current batch that hasn’t been noticed yet? I’m very interested in the bank release. Now that could be _big_. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/74 "2010-12-01T09:26:11Z")
Four former Danish foreign ministers (all red as Lenin mind you) and a number of former diplomats went out together to condemn the releases of confidential diplomatic messages, saying that it is essential for peaceful international relations that diplomats must be able to talk together and negotiate without fearing that their work or informal chats be made public. I don’t give a damn about all that shit. The political establishment and in particular the foreign office departments are anyway under little control of the citizens. It’s like a global self-referential behemoth. The best bits so far are the bits about the Egyptians and Saudis prodding the USA to bomb the fuck out of the Iranians. The Persians say it matters naught, but I bet they are secretly fuming, and scheming to teach them a lesson. This in turn will make the Saudis even more scared. Which will lead to more delicious weapon purchases of very expensive US and European/Russian weapon systems. Saudi money used on bombs is Saudi money not used on fascist wahhabist propaganda in the West and other places. All for the good. A humanitarian project. The Saudis are the last good Western weapons customer. Filthy rich so they can shop till they drop in US and Euro toys – yet too stupid to reverse engineer them or demand buy back clauses or local license productions. Probably also too stupid to used them or maintain them effectively – so all the expensive weapons just sits there and rust. The Iranian nuke project is God sent. If it didn’t exist we’d have to invent it. Same with Wikileaks. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/75 "2010-12-01T09:41:33Z")
> [@godix](#): > > Interestingly, [wikileaks is currently based on servers within the US](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/30/wikileaks-hit-by-powerful-cyber-attack/). Which either means an all powerful CIA plot is supporting wikileaks against an attack by America’s enemies who saw through the deception or the US is respecting Constitutional guarantees of free speech even for information it desperately wishes wasn’t being released. > > Which explanation you choose is up to you. I just found it interesting that despite how often Assange has made claims the US is out to destroy him, currently the government is leaving his shit alone even though it is based in US jurisdiction at the moment. Wikileaks is just one of many similar organisations. If you take Wikileaks out, there’s already a few set up to take its place almost instantly. In this respect, it’s like the early days of filesharing; taking Napster out achieved nothing. Besides, the web presence of Wikileaks is just one aspect of the organisation. You can get all of the information that they release through Bit Torrent and other decentralised file sharing programs, IIRC. There’s also the possibility that shutting them down just makes them martyrs and makes their cause even more popular. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/76 "2010-12-03T08:29:42Z")
[Story here](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WIKILEAKS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-12-03-02-56-45) on the AP. > [@](#): > > EveryDNS says it dropped the website late Thursday after it became the “target of multiple distributed denial of service attacks.” > > The American provider says in a statement that the attacks have threatened the stability of its infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/77 "2010-12-03T08:45:09Z")
I wondered how it had a U.S. domain. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/78 "2010-12-03T09:15:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I wondered how it had a U.S. domain. **First:** Domain names usually don’t indicate anything about where the site is hosted; for example, the .tv top-level domain was assigned to Tuvalu, but very few .tv sites are actually hosted on machines in the Pacific. (There are exceptions. It’s all down to who has the rights to sell domain names with that top-level domain.) **Second:** Having your DNS record revoked is the equivalent of someone ripping your name out of the phone book. Anyone who knows your number already, or can ask someone who does, can still call you, but it might be more difficult for the average person to find your number. It doesn’t really imply anything about whether the machine serving the content is up or down. **Third:** [WikiLeaks is now being hosted in Sweden and France.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Hosting) The US government can’t touch them, especially where they’re being hosted in Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/79 "2010-12-03T12:32:56Z")
The server was never down. As **Derleth** says, you could still get to it if you knew how. They’ve addressed the issue and are now available at [wikileaks.ch](http://wikileaks.ch). Also, they are now directly reachable at [213.251.145.96](http://213.251.145.96) independent of name servers. That address should work even if the domain wikileaks.ch is taken down. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198/80 "2010-12-04T03:20:32Z")
BBC has been saying one of the disclosures is that the Russian Mafia is active in Thailand. Whoa, Stop the Presses! Only everyone and his brother knows that over here already. They’re especially heavy in Pattaya, where they’ve even brought in their own Russian bargirls and built a Russian Orthodox church. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-has-released-the-documents/562198.md?page=5)