# WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 7, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648 "2017-03-07T21:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/41 "2017-03-09T02:21:51Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I believe that WikiLeaks has a number of releases all set to go. They just push the button whenever the mood hits them. Note that the release is listed as “Vault 7”, implying a vault 1 through 6 that are all ready to be opened at any arbitrary date. It’s arguable whether the implication is real or the numbering is more complex or even total BS. If the vault numbers really are sequential then the [German tank problem - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem) applies and the current expected maximum vault number is 13. As more vaults are revealed the quality of the estimate can be improved. Given that this stuff is now well understood math on all sides, that reduces the \*a priori \*likelihood the vault numbers are simple serial numbers. It’d be a pretty amateur mistake to use sequential numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/42 "2017-03-09T03:04:34Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Given that this stuff is now well understood math on all sides, that reduces the \*a priori \*likelihood the vault numbers are simple serial numbers. It’d be a pretty amateur mistake to use sequential numbers. If you know that your enemy is the USA and that each vault is impressively strong, saying that you have 12 more of them ready to go isn’t a bad thing to be able to indicate. After getting nuked by one bomb, finding out that there are twelve more doesn’t make one think, “Well gee, I can outlast that.” I’ll also note that journalists aren’t mathematicians and are notably horrible at science and math reporting. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/43 "2017-03-09T10:58:31Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > … > I’ll also note that journalists aren’t mathematicians and are notably horrible at science and math reporting. Agree completely with the above. I’ve been assuming the “Vault 7” terminology originated with WikiLeaks itself. Assange himself may be an idiot, but the tech people making it go and making it stay secure aren’t. They’d be aware of the implications of whatever name they used. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/44 "2017-03-09T15:18:37Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > Anti US anarchists. They’re not anti-US. They’re pro-freedom of information and anti-obfuscation. [QUOTE=Amateur Barbarian] Funny how the key revelation “the CIA and their pals can and do spy on you through your smart TV” just kind of got oh-yeahed here. [/QUOTE] Hey, if they \*want \*to watch millions of middle-aged couch potatoes wanking off a lazy Sunday afternoon… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/45 "2017-03-09T19:59:20Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > They’re not anti-US. They’re pro-freedom of information and anti-obfuscation. Right - just like they aren’t anti-Hillary, just pro-transparent campaigns. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/46 "2017-03-09T22:01:22Z")
Well, they were pro-_a_ transparent campaign. I have to admit, I’m confused as shit now. I am not surprised that the CIA has developed exploits for household items, and so forth, but I’m even less surprised that the Russians made up a bunch of CIA exploits for Wikileaks to “report” on. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/47 "2017-03-10T05:39:11Z")
New York Times article calling the articles about this misleading and exaggerated: > [@](#): > > In their haste to post articles about the release, almost all the leading news organizations took the WikiLeaks tweets at face value. Their initial accounts mentioned Signal, WhatsApp and other encrypted apps by name, and described them as “bypassed” or otherwise compromised by the C.I.A.’s cyberspying tools. > > Yet on closer inspection, this turned out to be misleading. Neither Signal nor WhatsApp, for example, appears by name in any of the alleged C.I.A. files in the cache. (Using automated tools to search the whole database, as security researchers subsequently did, turned up no hits.) More important, the hacking methods described in the documents do not, in fact, include the ability to bypass such encrypted apps — at least not in the sense of “bypass” that had seemed so alarming. Indeed, if anything, the C.I.A. documents in the cache confirm the strength of encryption technologies. > > What had gone wrong? There were two culprits: an honest (if careless) misunderstanding about technology on the part of the press; and yet another shrewd misinformation campaign orchestrated by WikiLeaks. [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/opinion/the-truth-about-the-wikileaks-cia-cache.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/opinion/the-truth-about-the-wikileaks-cia-cache.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/48 "2017-03-10T13:10:16Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > New York Times article calling the articles about this misleading and exaggerated: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/opinion/the-truth-about-the-wikileaks-cia-cache.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/opinion/the-truth-about-the-wikileaks-cia-cache.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0) Fascinating article, written by Zeynep Tufecki, who writes regularly for the NYTimes and is interviewed on NPR as a tech security expert and pundit. Her take on Wikileaks and their talent for self-promotion in the face of what the leaked materials actually contain is fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/49 "2017-03-10T16:56:59Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > New York Times article calling the articles about this misleading and exaggerated: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/opinion/the-truth-about-the-wikileaks-cia-cache.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/opinion/the-truth-about-the-wikileaks-cia-cache.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0) Though, to be fair, the dump was stuff which was floating around at a fairly low classification. This information doesn’t prove that the CIA is mostly blocked out of devices. It just demonstrates that if they have anything better, it’s a more closely guarded secret. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/50 "2017-03-10T17:56:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Wikileaks discredited itself by taking sides in an election. They claimed to have hacked info from both sides, but only leaked one, and did so at politically opportune moments. And then continued lying about stuff they were going to do. > > It’s an agenda-driven organization that will lie about what they have. The U.S. couldn’t have discredited them better than they did themselves. > > And I still suspect the site is under Russian control now. So information that proves Russia innocent is particularly suspect. Yes, when they hack and release Trumps tax returns, I will believe them. Also in some of the wiki leaks I saw, they used editing to obscure the real truth. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/51 "2017-03-14T00:48:52Z")
How is any of this legal? Unless they only use these tools with a warrant, they are most likely violating the Fourth Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/52 "2017-03-14T14:07:44Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > How is any of this legal? Unless they only use these tools with a warrant, they are most likely violating the Fourth Amendment. How is any of what legal? If you are talking about the WikiLeaks claims about the CIA, I’ve read a lot more about this, and for the most part it seems to be a lot of flash without a lot of substance. WikiLeaks is just being sensational, but if you dig in you will find that much of the hype about this is just that…hype. I know of no instance in the article or in the information they have released that indicates that the CIA is actually using these tools (a lot of which are speculative or laughable, or require so many hoops to be jumped through that they would be impracticable for actual field use) on the American people in an illegal manner. You could dig some and do some searching on the claims and how they have been countered, but I think I’ll leave you with [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg2UJkZHUug) YouTube video from the noted right wing conservative John Oliver for my take on it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648/53 "2017-03-14T14:11:12Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > How is any of this legal? Unless they only use these tools with a warrant, they are most likely violating the Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment doesn’t apply outside the boundaries of the United States (at least as it pertains to noncitizens). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikileaks-says-it-has-obtained-trove-of-cia-hacking-tools/781648.md?page=2)