# Wikipedia articles on math and statistics unhelpful to beginners **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124 "2010-12-14T15:48:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/1 "2010-12-14T15:48:23Z")
Lately, I’ve been trying to learn some things about trade, economics, and statistics. Every once in a while when I find myself stuck, I go online to look for help. For several years now, I have made it a habit when researching any particular topic to start with Wikipedia and see if it can help me with basic information and direct me to better sources. But with these kinds of mathematics-related topics, I’ve found that more often than not, the Wikipedia article goes way over my head and offers nothing that would help me understand and apply basic techniques at a beginner’s level. For example, these articles – > **[Regression analysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_analysis)** > > In statistical modeling, regression analysis is a set of statistical processes for estimating the relationships between a dependent variable (often called the 'outcome' or 'response' variable, or a 'label' in machine learning parlance) and one or more independent variables (often called 'predictors', 'covariates', 'explanatory variables' or 'features'). The most common form of regression analysis is linear regression, in which one finds the line (or a more complex linear combination) that most cl... > **[Coefficient of determination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_squared)** > > In statistics, the coefficient of determination, denoted R2 or r2 and pronounced "R squared", is the proportion of the variation in the dependent variable that is predictable from the independent variable(s). > It is a statistic used in the context of statistical models whose main purpose is either the prediction of future outcomes or the testing of hypotheses, on the basis of other related information. It provides a measure of how well observed outcomes are replicated by the model, based on the p... > **[Confidence interval](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval)** > > In frequentist statistics, a confidence interval (CI) is a range of estimates for an unknown parameter. A confidence interval is computed at a designated confidence level; the 95% confidence level is most common, but other levels, such as 90% or 99%, are sometimes used. The confidence level, degree of confidence or confidence coefficient represents the long-run proportion of CIs (at the given confidence level) that theoretically contain the true value of the parameter; this is tantamount to Facto... I find that doing searches for professor’s lectures and other basic course materials are much more helpful in learning basic principles and how to apply them. But I have this idea that a Wikipedia article about scientific or mathematical subjects _should_ be more like a basic introductory textbook or class lecture. Otherwise, who’s it for? ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/2 "2010-12-14T18:08:42Z")
I find Wikipedia to be a godsend at times. When it comes to advanced mathematics, a good many authors write so cryptically it’s damn near impossible to figure out what they’re trying to say. My feeling is that when professors write a math textbook, they’re trying to impress other professors with their knowledge, and don’t have the potential student in mind at all. There have been many times where I’ve tried to decipher WTF the author is talking about, then I look it up on Wiki to find that the subject is described in plain English. Well, to me, a math grad student, that is. 😃 ETA: The topics you list aren’t beginning topics. These are things that would most likely be introduced in a second stats course. Not sure if that helps, but I thought I’d mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/3 "2010-12-14T18:10:45Z")
See, you’re a math student. It’s written for your level. What about liberal arts schmucks like me who are playing catch-up? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/4 "2010-12-14T18:16:24Z")
I suspect that this is one of those areas where it would be hard write an article that would satisfy both the person starting on the topic and the grad student who just wants to be reminded abut the details. There is one online specialist encyclopedia that I’ve found very useful: [Wolfram Mathworld](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/). Its articles are often at an easier level than Wikipedia’s – though it still won’t be elementary enough for many users. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/5 "2010-12-14T18:16:39Z")
Yeah, this is a real problem with Wikipedia. Technical articles are usually, well, too technical. New article authors want to get all the cool stuff down, and worry about the intuitive explanations (which are usually harder to write!) later. Most of the time, this never happens, though. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/6 "2010-12-14T18:19:00Z")
Here’s one I thought of: check out [Dr. Math](http://mathforum.org/dr/math/). Those guys are good at explaining things clearly. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/7 "2010-12-14T18:57:16Z")
I only looked at the article on regression but I thought it was a good overview. The problem with trying to make a topic like that simple is that it isn’t simple. It’s certainly not an extremely advanced subject but unless you have sufficient background you’re just not going to understand it. I like to think of math as a language in some ways. I can count to 10 in German but that doesn’t make me ready to study a treatise on the Bauhaus movement in it’s original German – I’m just not equipped to handle it. Math is similar in that a strong understanding of the underlying concepts is required to move forward confidently, you can’t just skip over a couple years of study and expect to jump in and understand. But as always that’s just my 2¢ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/8 "2010-12-14T19:05:17Z")
I agree, Wikipedia is not usually the best place to go to understand a mathematical topic. I think part of the problem is that Wikipedia is about presenting **information** , whereas you’re looking for **explanation**. And part of the problem is, as others have noted, that a description that is correct and complete enough to satisfy someone who already knows something about the topic is going to be over the head of a beginner. And in some cases, part of the problem is that the people who understand a topic well enough to write a Wikipedia article about it aren’t necessarily good at describing or explaining it to someone who doesn’t already understand it. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/9 "2010-12-14T20:06:14Z")
> [@GESancMan](#): > > ETA: The topics you list aren’t beginning topics. These are things that would most likely be introduced in a second stats course. Not sure if that helps, but I thought I’d mention it. I am a high school math teacher. I can testify that I teach regression, coefficient of regression, and confidence intervals in my statistics class. I first learned those things during my high school statistics class and covered them again as a freshman in college. Mathematical topics are presented to students in a certain order because the human mind functions in certain ways, and finds certain things easier to understand than others. In the case of the three things that the OP linked to, we always begin by teaching them as they apply to a linear regression model and then advance from there to other statistical models. Trying to introduce those things by presenting the most general case is a recipe for failure. > [@acsenray](#): > > For several years now, I have made it a habit when researching any particular topic to start with Wikipedia and see if it can help me with basic information and direct me to better sources. > > But with these kinds of mathematics-related topics, I’ve found that more often than not, the Wikipedia article goes way over my head and offers nothing that would help me understand and apply basic techniques at a beginner’s level. > … > But I have this idea that a Wikipedia article about scientific or mathematical subjects should be more like a basic introductory textbook or class lecture. Otherwise, who’s it for? Here’s my opinion, which is not necessarily shared by every sentient being in the universe. Wikipedia looks like a collection of webpages written piecemeal by anonymous internet users without any attempt at consistency, meaningful standards, or editorial control. Which is no surprise because that’s what it is. Some Wikipedia articles are correct and useful. Some are technically correct but so poorly written and poorly organized that they’re useless. Many are just plain wrong. There are other websites for mathematics that do a better job, such as Wolfram (already linked by **Giles** ), but they still leave a lot to be desired. If you truly want to learn statistics or any other branch of mathematics, forget the internet and start reading books. If you go to the bookstore you can find plenty of books that are above the _For Dummies_ level but below a college textbook. That’s where you’ll find well-written explanations of these things. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/10 "2010-12-14T20:28:39Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I am a high school math teacher. I can testify that I teach regression, coefficient of regression, and confidence intervals in my statistics class. I first learned those things during my high school statistics class and covered them again as a freshman in college. I should have written that better. I didn’t mean to imply that these are advanced topics, just that they aren’t the first things taught in a statistics class. I was first introduced to these topics during the second quarter of a two-quarter Intro to Statistics sequence, that’s all I meant by a “second stats course.” ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/11 "2010-12-14T21:10:26Z")
Honestly, if what you’re looking for is a quick overview of a _great many_ mathematical and statistical topics, it’s hard to do better than Wikipedia; many of its editors really do know their stuff. But to provide a tabula rasa introduction to every topic is too much to expect and, frankly, wouldn’t really be in keeping with the goals of Wikipedia (to serve as an encyclopedia). For instance, there’s just no way to explain in detail what a confidence interval is to someone who doesn’t (at least) have some idea of basic statistics and probability – random variables, mean, variance, preferably normal approximations. And there’s probably not a whole lot of value in telling someone what a confidence interval is until they know that stuff. > [@ITR champion](#): > > There are other websites for mathematics that do a better job, such as Wolfram (already linked by Giles), but they still leave a lot to be desired. Eh. Your general notions of the overall value of Wikipedia are showing. Although allowing anyone to edit articles has risks, many of the (relevant) editors are working mathematicians, and I’ve found the rate of actual errors to be very low. Additionally, Wikipedia usually gives a much broader amount of information on a particular topic than MathWorld (which often goes too far in the opposite direction than that desired by the OP). ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/12 "2010-12-14T21:21:06Z")
More along the lines of advice to the OP: you’re doing exactly what I’ve found most helpful (searching for course lecture notes). One thing I like to do is do a google search something like “probable-course-name syllabus”, to get recommended readings and find course websites. Blackboard is a horrible, horrible development for the autodidact. But there’s probably no better way to get acquainted with these topics than slogging few a couple textbooks. Schaums guides are cheap and practical; they have beginning statistics and econometrics books which would probably get you to the point where you could easily understand materials you find around the net, such as Wikipedia. If you’re really serious about economics and statistics, I’d recommend some calculus as well, because you’ll be coming up on that rather quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/13 "2010-12-14T21:44:43Z")
> [@GESancMan](#): > > My feeling is that when professors write a math textbook, they’re trying to impress other professors with their knowledge, and don’t have the potential student in mind at all. > **[Principle of charity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity)** > > In philosophy and rhetoric, the principle of charity or charitable interpretation requires interpreting a speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation. In its narrowest sense, the goal of this methodological principle is to avoid attributing irrationality, logical fallacies, or falsehoods to the others' statements, when a coherent, rational interpretation of the statements is available. Accordin > N... ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/14 "2010-12-14T21:46:54Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I think part of the problem is that Wikipedia is about presenting **information** , whereas you’re looking for **explanation**. This is it in a nutshell. If you want a good introduction to a topic, Wikipedia is not the right place to be looking. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/15 "2010-12-14T21:53:44Z")
> [@GESancMan](#): > > ETA: The topics you list aren’t beginning topics. These are things that would most likely be introduced in a second stats course. Not sure if that helps, but I thought I’d mention it. These topics were all topics in a ridiculously easy stats course I took in high school. I would definitely call them beginning topics (after the super basic stuff that everyone covers in middle school.) ETA I see this was already covered. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/16 "2010-12-14T22:06:00Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > If you truly want to learn statistics or any other branch of mathematics, forget the internet and start reading books. If you go to the bookstore you can find plenty of books that are above the _For Dummies_ level but below a college textbook. That’s where you’ll find well-written explanations of these things. I hope **ITR champion** won’t disagree with me when I add that, if you truly want to learn statistics or any other branch of mathematics, you have to do more than read; you have to do the exercises, work things out for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/17 "2010-12-14T22:15:01Z")
Actually… For some highly technical subjects, Wikipedia _does_ have a simpler version. If you are having a problem understanding a particular entry, you can look at the language list to see if there is an option for “Simple English” Thus, there is the primary article for [Regression Analysis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_analysis), and the [simple English version for the same](http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_analysis) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/18 "2010-12-14T22:19:29Z")
You might want to see if the Khan Academy has those topics online. They are usually pretty easy to understand. Yeah, wiki is a source of information, not explanation. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/19 "2010-12-14T22:31:45Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > This is it in a nutshell. If you want a good introduction to a topic, Wikipedia is not the right place to be looking. But, since it’s goal is to be an encyclopedia, it should be. The point of an article is not to satisfy the people who already understand the topic. The actual reason for the overly technical articles is that they require you to provide sources the easier explanations–and those are hard to find. They’ve recently created an expert program that will let some certified experts do it, but not many know about it, and it is the rare expert that is good at dumbing down their expertise. And, no, it’s not hard to write an article that is good for the layman and the professional. You just have multiple sections. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124/20 "2010-12-15T00:58:46Z")
I had to do this to prep for business school (actually, I had to do it to apply). I just signed up for courses at UCLA extension. If you have the discipline, you could probably just buy yourself some textbooks. The internet stuff was sort of incomprehensible except for econ. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-articles-on-math-and-statistics-unhelpful-to-beginners/564124.md?page=2)