# Wikipedia is destroying knowledge :-( **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523 "2019-05-26T00:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/1 "2019-05-26T00:17:27Z")
I thought of posting in GQ: "What were human populations over time, e.g. in 9500 BC? 4500 BC? Yes, I did try to Google, but Google leads to answers I believe to be wrong, e.g. [the graph on this page](http://econosystemics.com/?p=9). That graph shows human populations increasing only slowly from 9500 BC to 4500 BC! Quite wrong, IMO! Not only did the area of land under cultivation increase dramatically over those dates, but improved techniques (dairy, plowing, perhaps boating) improved productivity. (Furthermore, that graph refers to that era as “Semi Nomadic” — a tag which in this context I daresay would be met with ridicule by professional anthropologists.) But I’m Pitting Wikipedia, not the linked site. What gives? [Essentially the same graph is what Wikipedia shows.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#/media/File:World_population_growth_(lin-log_scale).png) (I didn’t try to figure out who borrowed from whom.) Oftentimes these days, the first half-dozen Google hits on a question might have _the exact same text_, all copied from Wikipedia under its public domain rules. And often the info is WRONG, but the Wiki copying drowns out the scholar’s answer. Show me what I’m doing wrong. What are the better population estimates and where can I find them? Can I tweak my search engine to ignore not only Wikipedia but sites that copy Wikis? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/2 "2019-05-26T00:38:14Z")
Wikipedia has this table of various estimates with references: > **[Estimates of historical world population | Before 1950](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population_estimates#Before_1950)** > > The following table uses astronomical year numbering for dates, negative numbers corresponding roughly to the corresponding year BC (for example, −10000 = 10,001 BC, etc.). The table starts counting approximately 10,000 years before present, or around 8,000 BC, during the middle Greenlandian, about 1,700 years after the end of the Younger Dryas and 1,800 years before the 8.2-kiloyear event. > From the beginning of the early modern period until the 20th century, world population has been characteri... One of those references has population estimates barely changing for that period, one has it increasing 9-fold, one is in between. I’d start by reading those three papers, and looking at the reference list within the most recent paper for other relevant publications. On the more general hyperbole of your thread title: Wikipedia allowed me to find those academic references within about 60 seconds. It would otherwise have taken me far longer, since I’m not an expert in the field. How exactly do you conclude that it’s destroying knowledge? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/3 "2019-05-26T00:49:07Z")
Wikipedia _used to_ state that Billy Ray Cyrus was a bedwetter. I know that because I put it there. 🙂 It used to be possible for any shmo 😃 to type any damn thing there! ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/4 "2019-05-26T00:55:14Z")
Does WolframAlpha give you better results? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/5 "2019-05-26T01:01:37Z")
Does Atlantic Records still suck? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/6 "2019-05-26T01:13:08Z")
Well, lets Red from _ **Overly Sarcastic Productions** _ teach you what you are doing wrong: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/sigJwoeU6OI/maxresdefault.jpg "How to Do Research") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sigJwoeU6OI) > [@](#): > > Hey, everybody. So, in the months since I’ve put up the Dionysus video, I’ve gotten a few emails from people asking about my sources and my process and all that jazz, and around the third time I had to answer one of those emails, I had a sudden epiphany: > > “Maybe this process isn’t as intuitive as I thought…” > > So today I’m gonna share some sweet wisdom with all of you who’ve ever wondered: “HOW THE HECK TO DO I DO RESEARCH?” > > Now, I’m gonna start at the very beginning of the process and it’s probably not what you’re expecting to hear. This may be a bit shocking, and I’d advise elderly members of the audience to take a seat first, maybe check their blood pressure before I get to it. > > We good? > > Everyone’s sitting comfortably? Okay. > > The absolute first step to any research project is… > > WIKIPEDIA > > No, really. I learned this in university, from a real professor and everything. We all learned years ago that you’re never supposed to cite Wikipedia, **and this is completely true.** > > _Nobody_ trusts it as a source. It would be like citing something you read off the side of a subway car. But what Wikipedia _is_ good at is directing you to ACTUAL sources. Right at the bottom, in that sweet little references section, is a goldmine of all kinds of sources. And even better, the context of the article tells you what kind of information you can expect to find in those sources, and sometimes even what pages they’re on. > > It’s fantastic. You can get books, websites, translated primary sources, anything and everything from the reference section. So as you go through the relevant Wikipedia pages, any information that catches your eye will have a nice little citation on it. So grab that sucker and add it to the list! And when I say pages (plural) I mean it! Pretty much everything has its own dedicated Wikipedia page, (except for us) but that single page isn’t gonna be enough to get the full picture. You want to find every page that relates to the subject matter; important places, related people or groups, relevant time periods, stuff like that. > > Broadly, you want to get as much related stuff as you can since that’ll let you contextualize the subject; learning about it in isolation only gives you a fragment of the whole picture. Get greedy with it! you want to know everything about this subject, and that means you don’t need to skimp on the sources you pull together. > > So, once you’ve combed through every tangentially related Wikipedia page on your chosen subject, noted down a list of promising sources and what you expect to find in them, that’s when you enter stage two: > > HUNTING DOWN SOME SWEET SOURCES! So hunting what are the sources for that, one can follow, for example, the cite in the graph, and it leads us to the image in the wikimedia commons and the cites for it: > **[File:Population curve.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Population_curve.svg)** > [@](#): > > Sources > > ``` > Biraben, Jean-Noel, 1980, An Essay Concerning Mankind's Evolution, Population, Selected Papers, December, table 2. > > Durand, John D., 1974, "Historical Estimates of World Population: An Evaluation," University of Pennsylvania, Population Center, Analytical and Technical Reports, Number 10, table 2. > > Haub, Carl, 1995, "How Many People Have Ever Lived on Earth?" Population Today, February, p. 5. > > McEvedy, Colin and Richard Jones, 1978, "Atlas of World Population History," Facts on File, New York, pp. 342-351. > > Thomlinson, Ralph, 1975, "Demographic Problems, Controversy Over Population Control," Second Edition, Table 1. > > United Nations (UN), 1973, The Determinants and Consequences ofPopulation Trends, Population Studies, No. 50., p.10. > > United Nations, 1999, The World at Six Billion, Table 1, "World Population From" Year 0 to Stabilization, p. 5, http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/sixbillion/sixbilpart1.pdf > > U.S. Census Bureau (USCB), 2008, "Total Midyear Population for the World: 1950-2050", Data updated 12-15-2008, https://www.census.gov\/ipc/www/idb/worldpop.html > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/7 "2019-05-26T02:50:50Z")
Exactly right. I’ve published a lot of nonfiction, books, articles, educational publishing stuff, and I’ve never once cited Wikipedia but I’ve used it again and again. It’s not perfect, but then again, neither is the Encyclopedia Britannica. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/8 "2019-05-26T02:54:14Z")
Autocorrect is making people bad spellers, teens spend too much time on phones, and now this. What is with you people lately? Are you trying to get put in a home? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/9 "2019-05-26T03:04:00Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Autocorrect is making people bad spellers, teens spend too much time on phones, and now this. What is with you people lately? Are you trying to get put in a home? Better than sleeping in a subway station and sneaking under the turnstile in order to get somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/10 "2019-05-26T03:33:59Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Better than sleeping in a subway station and sneaking under the turnstile in order to get somewhere else. You say that like it’s a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/11 "2019-05-26T04:58:52Z")
Bah! Back in the day, we’d memorize the whole gods-damned Iliad! _And_ the Odyssey! I’m telling you, this “written language” thing is turning people’s brains into mush! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wikipedia-is-destroying-knowledge/834523/12 "2019-05-26T15:38:01Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I thought of posting in GQ: "What were human populations over time, e.g. in 9500 BC? 4500 BC? Yes, I did try to Google, but Google leads to answers I believe to be wrong, e.g. [the graph on this page](http://econosystemics.com/?p=9). That graph shows human populations increasing only slowly from 9500 BC to 4500 BC! Quite wrong, IMO! Not only did the area of land under cultivation increase dramatically over those dates, but improved techniques (dairy, plowing, perhaps boating) improved productivity. I’m sure epidemic disease, especially zoonotic diseases, and warfare also increased dramatically over that same period…