# Wild-Ass Speculating About July 21 London Bombers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526 "2005-07-21T19:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526/21 "2005-07-22T13:55:35Z")
I think it’s pretty safe to say the support network behind the bombers has been compromised much more than they expected. I’ve been pleasantly surprised and proud at how quickly and efficiently our police force have investigated the attacks of two weeks ago. The precise reason for yesterday’s failures is unclear but I’m sure it’s somehow down to the loss of a lot of that network. And sorry to hijack, but it looks like there’s [more developments as we speak](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm). Keep in mind it’s big news for police to shoot dead _anyone_ in this country. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526/22 "2005-07-24T12:25:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > If they ane last week’s bombers were duped, than someone else is setting the explosives off. If these guys “dropped and ran” why didn’t the explosives go off? These bombs were not remote triggered (as the bombs in Madrid were) as the bulk of them were on the tube. The tube is far underground and doesn’t have cell phone or radio reception, so it would be pretty difficult (if not impossible) to set them off remotely. The Madrid bombings were set off by cell phones and much more sophisticated, and those were ‘dropped and ran’ bombings. The single bus bombing they are thinking was actually an accident, as apparently the plan (don’t know how they know this) was to set off bombs at all 4 compass points from King’s Cross railway station and one bomber couldn’t get on the tube he was supposed to. I can’t comment on whether the bombers were duped, but the 7/7 bombers did do stuff that seems to indicate they knew they were going to be killed and wanted to be identified, such as carrying ID and credit cards and stuff. WAG - I think it was a technical problem in the manufacture of the bombs. It’s not as easy as on MacGuiver to put together a good bomb from household chemicals, or at least it’s not as easy as say putting together a molotov cocktail or something. WAG - Another option is short shelf life. C4 is incredibly stable and easy to use and doesn’t really degrade, but is also incredibly difficult to get, especially in a civilized country like England. Thankfully, as well, because if the tube bombers on 7/7 had used C4, a _ **lot** _ more people would have died. Most of the stuff bombers use is not nearly so stable, especially the ‘home grown’ stuff. So I think they might have left it in a car or something on a hot day, and the stuff simply degraded and broke down. Eyewitnesses said the bombers were quite surprised and shocked looking… ---
**Author:** ![cryptic\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@cryptic\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cryptic_j)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526/23 "2005-07-24T17:32:56Z")
I heard that eye witnesses, on two seperate trains on 21/7 (this was a UK thing - let me use my way of dating) the bombers definitely ran _after_ the detonators exploded… one said - I heard a bang, and this guys backpack had blown up - and he gave a shout of shock… (or something) another guy on a different train said… there was a guy laying on his front and his backpack had blown out - I helped him up - because I thought it was an aerosol can which had exploded or something… Then he ran off leaving the back pack… I’m sure the bbc website will have cites… as I heard these on BBC radio… that suggests to me, they either were suicide bombers - who realised that they’d failed - - or were duped, but survived… I don’t know… my one problem with it all (aside from the obvious) is that if the 7/7 attacks were supposed to be 4 trains (and the bus was an accident) why would a second wave from the same group target 3 trains and a bus… the chances of another accidental delay causing a bus to be targetted seems unlikely… ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526/24 "2005-07-24T20:21:01Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > The tube is far underground and doesn’t have cell phone or radio reception … Just to clarify that the only one of the 3 bombs on the 7th that was in a deep tunnel was the one on the Piccadilly Line between King’s Cross and Russell Square, some 70 feet down. The other two - at Edgware Road and between Liverpool Street and Aldgate - were in “cut-and-cover” tunnels which aren’t that far below the surface, probably no more than 15 feet (indeed, there are many short sections on the Circle/District Lines in the central area which are uncovered). Mobile phones will actually work there but the signal is very sporadic and certainly could not be relied upon. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526/25 "2005-07-25T12:39:20Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > Just to clarify that the only one of the 3 bombs on the 7th that was in a deep tunnel was the one on the Piccadilly Line between King’s Cross and Russell Square, some 70 feet down. > > The other two - at Edgware Road and between Liverpool Street and Aldgate - were in “cut-and-cover” tunnels which aren’t that far below the surface, probably no more than 15 feet (indeed, there are many short sections on the Circle/District Lines in the central area which are uncovered). Mobile phones will actually work there but the signal is very sporadic and certainly could not be relied upon. All true… ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526/26 "2005-07-25T15:09:06Z")
> [@cryptic\_j](#): > > my one problem with it all (aside from the obvious) is that if the 7/7 attacks were supposed to be 4 trains (and the bus was an accident) why would a second wave from the same group target 3 trains and a bus… the chances of another accidental delay causing a bus to be targetted seems unlikely… Part of the fear factor in all this is to convince the public that these terrorist cells are highly organised - so they might want to imitate the 3 trains/1 bus arrangement on their second attempt to suggest that that was the plan all along… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wild-ass-speculating-about-july-21-london-bombers/313526.md?page=1)