# Wildfires on Maui \[2023-08-10\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [August 10, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362 "2023-08-10T13:36:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/61 "2023-08-14T04:13:30Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > According to press reports, the head of Hawaii Emergency Management indicated _none_ of the conventional emergency warning sirens in Maui (which would just be a signal to people to tune in on the radio or their mobiles to find out what’s the problem and what to do) sounded at any point. I’ve also read that they never sounded. They were never activated, but also they were disabled early on anyway because the landlines they rely on were out. So, it would not have mattered. And even if they had sounded, with no landline, cell service, or power, how would people have gotten more information? There were emergency alerts sent to cell phones in the morning, and also emergency broadcast system alerts. Later in the day when the bigger fires happened, the cell service and power were knocked out. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/62 "2023-08-14T04:20:31Z")
Reading various personal accounts it appears that people were waiting on official word to evacuate. This is certainly going to affect the elderly and infirm at higher rates because they don’t want to venture out in a smoke filled environment. And children will be tied to the decision their parents make. I find this odd because in my area the news stations are all over weather/emergency issues. They will get on the air and warn people exactly where the problem is and what to do. Waiting on the warning sirens is a last ditch notification of what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/63 "2023-08-14T04:35:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I find this odd because in my area the news stations are all over weather/emergency issues. They will get on the air and warn people exactly where the problem is and what to do. But, if the power was out (and it sounds like it was), that wouldn’t have helped them. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/64 "2023-08-14T04:50:26Z")
Fatalities now total 93. This is just awful. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/65 "2023-08-14T08:22:59Z")
I’ve seen reports that the number of unaccounted for is about 1000. Just terrible. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/66 "2023-08-14T09:04:21Z")
Family members are pretty mobile throughout the islands; staying with other relatives/friends as needed for work or healthcare. I expect this will resolve a lot of these. But 1000 is a scary figure. Fingers crossed. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/67 "2023-08-14T11:16:27Z")
Yes, fingers crossed for sure. I saw pictures of the destruction with the sound off on my TV and I thought it was a story about Ukraine until I unmuted the TV. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/68 "2023-08-14T11:28:00Z")
Most people have cars. So even if the electricity was out if the sirens had sounded they could have turned on their car radios to get further information. And a number of people also have a battery powered radio for emergencies. [The sirens should have a battery or generator source of power.] As to the massive number of missing remember than Paradise also had a similar number of missing: > In the Camp fire, the list of people unaccounted for swelled to **about 1,300** in the days after the destruction of Paradise. The final death toll was 85 people. > **[The death toll won’t be known for weeks, based on California’s experience.](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/based-on-californias-fire-history-final-death-toll-in-hawaii-wont-be-known-for-weeks/)** ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/69 "2023-08-14T13:20:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Reading various personal accounts it appears that people were waiting on official word to evacuate. Which makes it one of those tragic situations where doing exactly what you have been told you are supposed to does no good – because no official instruction or direction reached you. Of course we can never know if an early evac order would not have found people trapped in traffic – a properly organized evacuation would have taken hours anyway. Lahaina has the problem of being up against the shore and any movement has to be along the coast road, so anyone fleeing was _not_ getting any further away from the fire line for a number of miles. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/70 "2023-08-14T14:16:43Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > A potential (non life threatening) danger I recently saw pointed out: is there any way to prevent some billionaire from swooping in, buying all the land on the cheap, and turning Lahaina into a private playground estate or charging massive rents or whatever? One of the conspiracy theories generated by the fires says that Oprah Winfrey (who already owns large tracts of land on Maui) was involved in starting the fires to displace islanders and tourists and thus allow her to buy up even more land. And that’s one of the least insane conspiracy theories. The leading one right now says the fires were started by “directed energy weapons” (Jewish space lasers?) or similar means [to manipulate climate](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-maui-fire-photos-misrepresented-conspiracy-555091357957) or somesuch. [Another](https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-08-11-leftist-global-warming-zealots-hawaii-fires-climate.html) I’ve seen suggests that climate change activists started the fires to spark climate fears and gain support for their cause. I haven’t yet seen blame being cast on Covid-19 vaccines but that could be next. “Shedding” of flammable spike proteins, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/71 "2023-08-14T14:41:53Z")
Westborough Baptist church was in Hawaii last week. Not sure which island. But they claimed god would destroy Hawaii. I think it was winds knocking down powerlines. But when I think of the WBC idiots and their claims. I would not be surprised if this was more than a coincidence. No, I don’t mean god, I mean WBC. So that’s my conspiracy theory. WBC started this to prove that they are right. Either way, I’m sure those morons are high-fiving each other. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/72 "2023-08-14T16:35:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And that’s one of the least insane conspiracy theories. The leading one right now says the fires were started by “directed energy weapons” (Jewish space lasers?) or similar means [to manipulate climate](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-maui-fire-photos-misrepresented-conspiracy-555091357957) or somesuch. [Another](https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-08-11-leftist-global-warming-zealots-hawaii-fires-climate.html) I’ve seen suggests that climate change activists started the fires to spark climate fears and gain support for their cause. My understanding is that it was started by the Engineering Cabal of the Greater Pacific, to encourage the local government into burying the power lines. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/73 "2023-08-14T16:56:01Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Lahaina has the problem of being up against the shore and any movement has to be along the coast road, so anyone fleeing was _not_ getting any further away from the fire line for a number of miles. Stupid stupid question, but could residents have simply walked out into the ocean and stood there while the town burned? I cannot tell from google map how abruptly the shore drops off, but ISTR hearing that many Chicagoans waded into the lake to escape the Chicago fire. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/74 "2023-08-14T17:00:31Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Stupid stupid question, but could residents have simply walked out into the ocean and stood there while the town burned? I cannot tell from google map how abruptly the shore drops off, but ISTR hearing that many Chicagoans waded into the lake to escape the Chicago fire. I saw some video of people jumping into the water. It was a place with big rocks piled up, to prevent erosion. If there’s 60mph winds, I’d expect pretty serious waves. If you have to be in the water for several hours with giant boulders on one side and heavy waves on the other, I could see that causing many deaths. Not everyone is large and physically capable. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/75 "2023-08-14T17:05:21Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > A potential (non life threatening) danger I recently saw pointed out: is there any way to prevent some billionaire from swooping in, buying all the land on the cheap, and turning Lahaina into a private playground estate or charging massive rents or whatever? I’ve heard that in some places in Hawaii, people aren’t allowed to actually own the land. They lease it from Hawaii with like a 99-year lease or something. I’m not sure of the actual details. Anyone know the details on that and if this part of Maui is the same? I’m not sure what the rules are about transferring leases and such. Even if it’s all leased land, perhaps a billionaire could maybe buy rights to the lease from the current lease holder? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/76 "2023-08-14T17:16:08Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I saw some video of people jumping into the water. It was a place with big rocks piled up, to prevent erosion. Yeah, Lahaina does not have a large beach - there are a few pocket beaches and a sea wall that drops into rocks and boulders, but with people panicking and disoriented they probably just wanted to get in the water and out of harm’s way. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/77 "2023-08-14T17:22:49Z")
Also, being in the water does not prevent smoke asphyxiation. Trying tp swim or cling to rocks while you can’t get enough oxygen to maintain your activity is horrific. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/78 "2023-08-14T17:40:42Z")
The leaseholder for non-fee simple lands is Hawaiian homelands, not a "commercial’ entity like a bank. As an example on Oahu, Hilton Grand Vacations actually owns its land and buildings. None of the other major resorts own their land; they are paying on a 99 year lease and many are coming due. Based on Hawaiian percentage (it has changed a few times), native Hawaiian individuals may lease land that comes open for $1.00 a year. So if the land in/around Lahina is in the homelands purvue, there won’t be a corporate takeover. Current lease holders are eligible to rebuild (hope for insurance) and I expect action to provide very low cost loans. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/79 "2023-08-14T18:01:34Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Stupid stupid question, but could residents have simply walked out into the ocean and stood there while the town burned? [Yep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPVtgV2nRCw). However as noted it is not a safe place to be, just an absolutely desperate last resort. The smoke can kill you quickly and people have died trying to seek shelters in places like swimming pools when the extreme heat seared their lungs. Not even to mention ocean hazards like currents, rocks and debris. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/80 "2023-08-14T22:34:15Z")
Besides all that, since Hawaii’s islands are volcanoes, the beaches and sand at the shoreline drop steeply. What I mean is, it’s not like the sand slopes gently when you’re standing in the water. You only go a few feet into the water, and you’re not standing anymore, you’re already swimming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362.md?page=5)