# Wildfires on Maui \[2023-08-10\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [August 10, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362 "2023-08-10T13:36:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/81 "2023-08-15T03:49:01Z")
There are many stories of people who fled into the ocean and survived. Some were there for hours. I haven’t yet found a report of someone doing this who did not survive, though it will probably be a long time until all the stories are known. It would be normal for smoke from very hot fires to rise rapidly, leaving the air just above the water at least breathable. And in the strong easterly wind, Lahaina was on the lee side of the island and thus swimmers would not have had to deal with huge waves. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/82 "2023-08-15T04:05:28Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > I haven’t yet found a report of someone doing this who did not survive, though it will probably be a long time until all the stories are known. We’ll see. There have been numerous reports of bodies recovered from the sea. Could be those were already injured people who succumbed to their burns later, people who died on land and the bodies ended up in the water one way or another or it could be people that drowned. As you say it will take some time to sort out. I know if I was pinned against the sea, first thing I would do is look for a very nearby boat, second thing is wade on in. When you have only bad options and worse options, bad always win. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/83 "2023-08-15T04:39:35Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > There are many stories of people who fled into the ocean and survived. Some were there for hours. I haven’t yet found a report of someone doing this who did not survive, though it will probably be a long time until all the stories are known A [WaPo story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/08/13/maui-wildfire-started-spread/) i read last night included several survivor accounts, including one woman who fled into the ocean. She said guy near her died, probably of a smoke inhalation. She also thought some people might have drifted off to sea. She’s currently living in shelters, and covered with bruises and lacerations from her time in the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/84 "2023-08-15T06:32:47Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > She also thought some people might have deducted off to sea. Gotta work on that swiping. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/85 "2023-08-15T06:36:28Z")
I’ve corrected my post. Thanks for pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/86 "2023-08-15T18:26:14Z")
[Nature News](https://www.nature.com/) has published an article on the causes behind the increase in Hawaiian wildfires in recent years and the root causes of the Maui wildfire, many of them discussed in an AP link early in this thread: [Hawaii wildfires: did scientists expect Maui to burn? (nature.com)](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-02571-z) Something I haven’t seen previously is discussion of how to prevent or at least mitigate future wildfires. The discussion of native Hawaiian methods of managing wildfire danger is eerily similar to some of the descriptions of the Californian Native population methods discussed in [Bring Your Own Brigade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bring_Your_Own_Brigade), the 2021 documentary covering the Camp Fire that devastated Paradise, CA. > _From Nature News:_ > Kamelamela, who is Native Hawaiian, says that whether the plants in an area are native or introduced is less important than how carefully land is cared for. In the past, people who gathered resources from a forest would also tidy it up, removing undergrowth or even replanting important plants. But such labour-intensive traditional work is hard to fit into a hectic modern life. “Most people in Hawaii have two to three jobs and are just trying to take their kids to soccer practice,” she says. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/87 "2023-08-16T03:08:47Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Which makes it one of those tragic situations where doing exactly what you have been told you are supposed to does no good – because no official instruction or direction reached you. Of course we can never know if an early evac order would not have found people trapped in traffic If the local TV station had been on top of this they could have warned people to evacuate early and how to do it. People close to the shoreline could have used bicycles to offset any traffic jams. That picture of the kids looking up a street at a roaring fire really strikes home. Really, all you need to know is “FIRE” and “60 MPH WINDS”. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/88 "2023-08-16T04:39:25Z")
> **[Death toll from devastating Maui fire reaches 101, Hawaii governor says](https://apnews.com/article/hawaii-wildfires-recovery-maui-lahaina-search-c3da091a10e7aaa69022f002d3e241b9)** > > Hawaii's governor says the blaze that burned through the town of Lahaina on Maui last week has killed at least 101 people, as recovery efforts continue. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/89 "2023-08-16T06:37:40Z")
[![](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/957462459176861757/1141258646379036722/facebook_1692167650457_7097465544983417822.jpg) ](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/957462459176861757/1141258646379036722/facebook_1692167650457_7097465544983417822.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/90 "2023-08-16T07:15:54Z")
The idea frees up Maui hotel rooms so locals can stay local rather than going off island. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/91 "2023-08-16T13:12:01Z")
The latest number of unaccounted for has actually gone up to 1300 and many of them children. Unbearable loss. > **[1,300 still missing after Maui fires](https://www.cbsnews.com/video/1300-still-missing-after-maui-fires/#:~:text=1%2C300%20still%20missing%20after%20Maui%20fires%20%2D%20CBS%20News)** > > Crews continued the search for the more than 1,300 people still missing on Maui. Only four of the 99 confirmed dead had been identified as of Tuesday, with the death toll expected to climb in the coming days. "CBS Evening News" anchor and managing... ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/92 "2023-08-16T19:31:23Z")
An interesting insight on how the fires got so bad: invasive non-native grasses (which are well adapted to cycles of burning and regrowth) fueled a lot of the brushfire because it had grown explosively in a preceding wet time, neglected and ignored until it dried out and became the foundation of much of the wildfire. > **[Non-native grass species blamed for ferocity of Hawaii wildfires](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/aug/16/non-native-grass-species-blamed-for-ferocity-of-hawaii-wildfires)** > > Failure to heed warnings over unchecked growth meant blaze was ‘a disaster waiting to happen’, say scientists and academics ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/93 "2023-08-16T20:45:18Z")
I wonder why they didn’t have livestock grazing those grasses. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/94 "2023-08-17T00:55:32Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Also, being in the water does not prevent smoke asphyxiation. Trying tp swim or cling to rocks while you can’t get enough oxygen to maintain your activity is horrific. Heat is a big factor. People who ride motorcycles will understand that speed is a factor. When it’s hot out, going faster on the bike makes the rider hotter from heat soak. The same applies to a fire moving at highway speeds. The already intolerable temperature of the fire is magnified by the speed due to heat soak. So escaping to the ocean still exposes people to smoke AND heat. Bobbing in the water will mitigate heat if there is enough shoreline for people to stand in the water. But as already stated, this was a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/95 "2023-08-17T02:16:54Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > But, if the power was out (and it sounds like it was), that wouldn’t have helped them. I would expect backup generators for TV stations and internet broadcasting if their towers are down. But that’s an assumption. When the weather is really bad in my area I go to my phone first. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/96 "2023-08-17T02:31:43Z")
The lack of water pressure suggests they depleted the water tower(s) fighting the fires and there were no pumps to replenish the supply. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/97 "2023-08-17T03:56:38Z")
What I read was that Lahaina is almost all electric, and the water supply is dependent on electric pumps attached to the grid. When the power went out, no water for hydrants. If true, that sounds like a major design flaw. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/98 "2023-08-17T09:47:50Z")
A bit of good news :- > **[Maui wildfire miracle with 60 survivors found in single home as death toll...](https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/maui-fires-update-cause-death-toll-travel-advisory-b2394447.html)** > > Conspiracy theories run wild after Maui wildfires as cause of blazes under investigation ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/99 "2023-08-17T22:51:47Z")
I did hear about 60 people who had gathered at a house that was basically surrounded by fire damage, and they had no way to communicate with the outside world. Most of them were on one missing list or another, and obviously were stricken off when they were found, alive and relatively safe. I also wonder how many of the missing were swept out to sea, and am honestly surprised I haven’t heard any stories about bodies washing up on shores, there or nearby. Maybe that’s happened and I haven’t seen it. And one other thing, which may have been addressed but I haven’t read the whole thread. Some conspiracy theorists are spreading the concept that the fire may have been deliberately started so crooked real estate speculators from places like China or Saudi Arabia could grab up that prime real estate. While I know predatory investors have descended on the island, I doubt anyone would be greedy enough to destroy a city on purpose for a reason like this. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362/100 "2023-08-17T23:00:04Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I doubt anyone would be greedy enough to destroy a city on purpose for a reason like this There are plenty of historical examples of people destroying cities for all sorts of terrible reasons. I agree that the conspiracy theories are nonsense, but not because there aren’t people capable—those capable just have easier and surer ways to exploit their fellow humans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wildfires-on-maui-2023-08-10/988362.md?page=6)