# Will 50 Shades of Gray make BDSM more mainstream? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483 "2015-02-12T16:40:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/41 "2015-02-13T03:29:38Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > How many 45 year old housewives actually went to see 120 days of Sodom? Or even _heard_ of it? This film has the momentum of a trashy novel that build up a lot of buzz on the Internet. Do you mean _Salo_, because that movie could not be more different to this, and has nothing to do with BDSM. As for ‘Fifty Shades’, I almost feel compelled to see it, just because I hate criticizing something I haven’t seen. I enjoyed _Secretary_, but that was a romantic comedy with BDSM as a setting (the scene where the heroine meets a string of perverts is a classic romcom trope, but one which maaany women I know laughed at in recognition). I feel like a lot of people in the BDSM world are too worried about appearing ‘normal’ to acknowledge that underpinning most safe-sane-consensual real-life good relationships is a darker, more threatening fantasy, which seems to be what 50SoG is representing. Being tied up is only thrilling if you imagine that the answer might be ‘no’ when you ask to be untied - if the answer is automatically ‘yes’, then it’s something other than BDSM. TV shows like Castle have done episodes on the ‘lifestyle’ that are ridiculous and unrealistic, but ultimately sympathetic to the people involved (contra something like Pulp Fiction, where they are sub human freaks). That’s the sort of thing that makes alternative lifestyles more ‘mainstream’. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/42 "2015-02-13T11:25:03Z")
BDSM tropes have been comedy staples for decades. I would have thought anyone who was going to get into BDSM had already y’know googled it. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/44 "2015-02-13T12:06:41Z")
[Speaking of reviews…](http://cheezburger.com/68678657?ref=whatspopularfooter) Haven’t read the book and have no desire to see the movie, especially after Dave Barry’s column and this video. Each to his own, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/45 "2015-02-13T12:19:41Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Is the audience all that young? I was under the impression that the majority of 50 Shades readers are middle-aged housewives. From [here](http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/consent-isnt-enough-in-fifty-shades-of-grey/385267/): > [@](#): > > The audience, of course, was women— **mostly in their 30s, 40s, and 50s,** Perreault said, although data from Nielsen suggests that **about a third of the people who bought the books in the U.S. were actually 18 to 29 years old.** Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/46 "2015-02-13T14:04:32Z")
> [@Junior Spaceman](#): > > Do you mean Salo, because that movie could not be more different to this, and has nothing to do with BDSM. > > As for ‘Fifty Shades’, I almost feel compelled to see it, just because I hate criticizing something I haven’t seen. I enjoyed Secretary, but that was a romantic comedy with BDSM as a setting Yeah, really, there is no comparison to Salo/120 Days, that movie was not _meant_ to be arousing (\*see below) In the end, whatever we say the public will vote with their pocketbooks, and have been doing so for a while now, in a big way. We already know a movie or book being artistically inferior does not preclude it being commercially hugely succesful, or striking a chord that resonates with a large segment of the public. Fill in your own examples. The times can also affect things – I mentioned _9 & 1/2 Weeks_ before, the book was kinda sorta _Grey_ish but never became a hit. It was just not its time ( and that’s also important, in the Web age, word-of-mouth can propagate much more effectively, and kindred spirits to whom to propagate it are easier and safer to find). Then when made into a movie there was no consciousness of a book and the movie was perceived as just a Naked Kim Basinger vehicle. (Mind you, mid-1980s, Naked Kim Basinger is A Good Thing. But then they went and cast Mickey Rourke as the would-be alpha male…) (\*BTW: Sadism as created by De Sade was NOT, repeat NOT anywhere close to what your average all-American suburban wife in leather pegging hubby in gimpsuit mean by the S in S&M. De Sade’s books are filled with John-Galt-scale philosophy monologues, intercalated with _extreme_ tortureporn/scat/snuff scenes, showing how those with power can \*literally \*shit on people and get away with murder.) > [@Steken](#): > > From [here](http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/consent-isnt-enough-in-fifty-shades-of-grey/385267/): > > > [@](#): > > > > The audience, of course, was women—mostly in their 30s, 40s, and 50s, Perreault said, although data from Nielsen suggests that about a third of the people who bought the books in the U.S. were actually 18 to 29 years old. Which ISTM would be sort of expected from the book’s evolution out of what was originally a _Twilight_ online fanfic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/47 "2015-02-13T16:27:40Z")
Apparently, [some in the BDSM community strongly disapprove of _50 Shades._](http://www.salon.com/2015/02/13/%e2%80%9c50_shades%e2%80%9d_of_coercive_sex_the_movie_is_even_worse_than_the_book/) ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/48 "2015-02-13T16:29:53Z")
There can be all the interest in the world on the anonymous internet; but that may not translate into box office sales. First of all, for the most part, men aren’t going to go see the movie. Second; reading a novel in the privacy of your own home because you have a light S&M fantasy is one thing; but actually going to the movies may be another. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a biggish opening weekend; followed by interesting dropping way off (especially if Dave Berry’s review is accurate). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/49 "2015-02-13T16:50:08Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > First of all, for the most part, men aren’t going to go see the movie. Speaking as one of those men, you’re right; I have no interest in seeing this movie. But only because they didn’t cast Jennifer Lawrence. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/50 "2015-02-13T17:09:52Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > I feel like a lot of people in the BDSM world are too worried about appearing ‘normal’ to acknowledge that underpinning most safe-sane-consensual real-life good relationships is a darker, more threatening fantasy, which seems to be what 50SoG is representing. Being tied up is only thrilling if you imagine that the answer might be ‘no’ when you ask to be untied - if the answer is automatically ‘yes’, then it’s something other than BDSM. That’s like saying bungee jumping is only thrilling if you think the supervisor might have cut the cord. Anyone who is incapable of understanding the distinction between allowing the sub to _pretend_ they are in peril and actually putting them in jeopardy needs to stay the fuck away from this movie and BDSM in general. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/51 "2015-02-13T17:14:22Z")
\ 50 Shades of [DEL]Boredom [/DEL]Gray isn’t new. Check out Kim Basinger in 9 1/2 Weeks or Carré Otis in Wild Orchid to see a smug, a-hole guy teach a uptight repressed woman how to make love. Mickey Rourke made a career out of playing these pompous idiots. I never understood the attraction of some guy dominating or controlling a woman. I realize its a sex game with boundaries and a willing partner. It still doesn’t appeal to me. I never like game playing in my relationships. Keep it real. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/52 "2015-02-13T17:18:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I never understood the attraction of some guy dominating or controlling a woman. I realize its a sex game with boundaries with a willing partner. It still doesn’t appeal to me. That’s an interesting way of putting it; are you implying the opposite appeals to you? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/53 "2015-02-13T17:20:42Z")
Nah, I just like honesty in a relationship. I don’t manipulate my So and she doesn’t manipulate or control me. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/54 "2015-02-13T17:23:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Apparently, [some in the BDSM community strongly disapprove of _50 Shades._](http://www.salon.com/2015/02/13/%e2%80%9c50_shades%e2%80%9d_of_coercive_sex_the_movie_is_even_worse_than_the_book/) There’s a good point at the end there. Dislike of this film has made for strange bedfellows. It would be fun to see a conservative Christian family group protesting the film next to some BDSM group. From reading that review, wow. Yeah. Didn’t do their research. People who just know the book or movie will have the wrong idea. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/55 "2015-02-13T17:37:10Z")
Imagining that the answer might be “no” when you ask to be untied (or rather, when you say the agreed-upon safeword\*; begging for mercy can be part of the play) is thrilling… in romance novels. Not so much IRL. (\*“diplodocus”) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/56 "2015-02-13T17:48:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Nah, I just like honesty in a relationship. I don’t manipulate my So and she doesn’t manipulate or control me. Oh, I’m VERY honest with my wife those nights. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/57 "2015-02-13T17:58:21Z")
It’s fun to watch so many of the critics fall all over themselves to denounce the movie. It’s the sort of reaction I can imagine coming from conservatives if Hillary ever got elected. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/58 "2015-02-13T17:59:58Z")
Shrug. I don’t get the hype for this or the concern. Have we not seen a ton of graphic depictions in movies and cable these days? The book reads like badly written young adult fiction, but there’s no accounting for taste. One thing to be sure is product placement will be rampant throughout this thing. This is all about how materialism is sexy, and that’s what the producers will cash in on. It’s the ONLY reason why this junk will make millions, and why the television talk shows will be ass licking the actors, more money in the coffers pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/59 "2015-02-13T18:06:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Nah, I just like honesty in a relationship. I don’t manipulate my So and she doesn’t manipulate or control me. (Missed the edit window.) What manipulation? Real BDSM has agreed on rules and boundaries. You can’t make the sub do anything they don’t want to. You set limits before. If they change their mind in the middle of play, they have the safe word. It’s just a different way to have fun. Some couples like walks on the beach, others like BDSM. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/60 "2015-02-13T18:08:37Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Speaking as one of those men, you’re right; I have no interest in seeing this movie. > > But only because they didn’t cast Jennifer Lawrence. Exactly. 😃 9 1/2 Weeks was worth watching only because of Kim Basinger. I would have never gone to that movie just to see the story and sex bondage games. The dress up game with her in a guys suit was fun. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483/61 "2015-02-13T20:21:51Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That’s like saying bungee jumping is only thrilling if you think the supervisor might have cut the cord. Anyone who is incapable of understanding the distinction between allowing the sub to _pretend_ they are in peril and actually putting them in jeopardy needs to stay the fuck away from this movie and BDSM in general. Thanks for missing the point. Unless you think true safety in bungee jumping would mean not even climbing the tower. I’m not going to pretend that I can sum up BDSM in one sentence, but the _fantasy_ underlying that kind of sexual expression (almost) always has to have some sort of nastiness behind it, where there is a hierarchy, and where the peril is “real”. The _reality_ is where SSC has to be considered, but the last thing submissive partners want to be reminded of is “this isn’t real”. My point was that there is always this nervousness where think piece writers believe that they’re the only ones savvy enough to separate fantasy and reality. I’m not defending 50 Shades here, because I haven’t seen/read it, but I wish there was at least a second given to the thought that movies and books are part of the fantasy part of life, not the reality part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-50-shades-of-gray-make-bdsm-more-mainstream/712483.md?page=4)