# Will a pardoned Trump still face lawsuits regarding illegal acts committed while in office?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 10, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224 "2020-09-10T01:03:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/1 "2020-09-10T01:03:18Z")
I recently heard that one strategy that Trump may use if he loses the election is to have Mike Pence pardon him. Will a pardoned Trump still face lawsuits regarding illegal acts committed while in office? What can the Southern District of New York still do legally after he is pardoned?
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### Author:  [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/2 "2020-09-10T01:10:54Z")
It depends on the terms of the pardon. If it’s a general “all crimes and misdemeanors against the US,” then it’s likely the SDNY can do nothing. (State courts and prosecutors are not constrained, however, so the NY AG can still pursue cases.)
Also, “lawsuits” implies civil court; pardons apply to criminal accusations. Which are you talking about?
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### Author:  [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/3 "2020-09-10T01:17:58Z")
Thanks slash2 k. I was referring to lawsuits (criminal and civil). So pardons only apply to criminal indictments. I wasn’t aware of that.
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### Author:  [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/4 "2020-09-10T04:34:08Z")
If he gets sued (civilly) for things he did as president, then the taxpayers will get to foot the bill for his defense, too. Some such lawsuits will still do good if they can establish that some of the things he did were illegal. But some will be costly one-offs that he won’t care about or have to pay for because he’ll be indemnified.
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### Author:  [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/5 "2020-09-10T08:42:18Z")
Surely in the post -Trump era legal measures will be taken (if they are not already in the works) to limit pardoning and tax payers footing the bill for ex-presidents in civil suits. Is it too late for Congress and the Senate (if there is a sufficient number of detractor) to limit Pence’s ability to pardon Trump?
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/6 "2020-09-10T09:36:31Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#):
>
> If he gets sued (civilly) for things he did as president, then the taxpayers will get to foot the bill for his defense, too. Some such lawsuits will still do good if they can establish that some of the things he did were illegal. But some will be costly one-offs that he won’t care about or have to pay for because he’ll be indemnified.
Is there a distinction between “while president” and “as president”? I would tend to think he would only have qualified immunity for the latter. And, of course, only if they were legally allowed, as you say.
I would hope that, if qualified immunity was found not to apply, he’d have to foot the bill beyond that point.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/7 "2020-09-10T13:15:38Z")
> [@Octagon](#):
>
> I recently heard that one strategy that Trump may use if he loses the election is to have Mike Pence pardon him
I think I’m missing something. Can a vice-president pardon people?
ETA: Wait… the idea is that Trimp temporarily appoints Pence prez or something like that?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/8 "2020-09-10T13:25:11Z")
> [@Octagon](#):
>
> Is it too late for Congress and the Senate (if there is a sufficient number of detractor) to limit Pence’s ability to pardon Trump?
For all practical purposes, yes, it is too late. It probably requires a Constitutional Amendment to satisfy everyone. I’m not positive that is required, but just the lack of consensus on the subject makes it nearly impossible to get state legislatures or conventions to act in such a short period of time, much less get 3/4 approval from the states.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/9 "2020-09-10T13:25:54Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> ETA: Wait… the idea is that Trimp temporarily appoints Pence prez or something like that?
The idea is that Trump resigns after the election so that Pence can pardon him.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/10 "2020-09-10T13:27:14Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> ETA: Wait… the idea is that Trimp temporarily appoints Pence prez or something like that?
Order of Succession. Trump resigns, Pence is next in line.
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### Author:  [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/11 "2020-09-10T13:33:49Z")
Yep - see first post in [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cohens-theory-about-pence-pardoning-trump/920166).
j
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/12 "2020-09-10T13:49:29Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> Order of Succession. Trump resigns, Pence is next in line.
I thought maybe they’d do some 25th Amendment kind of thing. Like, Trump goes for some procedure where he’s unconscious for an hour or so, during that time Pence, with temporary powers, pardons Trump. Or something.
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### Author:  [@pdhenry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdhenry)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/13 "2020-09-10T14:16:33Z")
A Pence pardon can’t do anything about charges brought by a state. One reason why apparently the SDNY is sharing info with New York State.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/14 "2020-09-10T15:47:49Z")
Trump has shown zero regard for constitutional norms up to now; I suspect he already has a self-pardon signed and undated in a secure file somewhere. And if he’s defeated on Nov. 3, he’s going to be issuing a blizzard of pardons. It’ll make GHWB’s and Clinton’s last days look like models of restraint.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/15 "2020-09-10T21:37:34Z")
Suppose the incoming president declines to defend Trump against a civil suit? It seems clear no court will issue a writ of mandamus forcing him to.
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### Author:  [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-a-pardoned-trump-still-face-lawsuits-regarding-illegal-acts-committed-while-in-office/920224/16 "2020-09-10T23:28:58Z")
I don’t think he would have to. The Fitzgerald case was argued by Nixon’s personal attorney.
But a president (and former president) is absolutely immune from suits for civil damages based on official acts. (Nixon v. Fitzgerald). The former president can raise that immunity himself. I don’t see from this thread any sense of what these “lawsuits” would be, but many of them would fall within that principle, I would think. And those that don’t would likely fall outside of any expectation that DOJ would defend him.
(I guess you have whole Westfall Act issue… That requires the involvement of the DOJ.)