# Will AG Gonzalez have to resign? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642 "2007-03-12T18:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/81 "2007-05-17T23:43:50Z")
NBC reporter asks Bush point blank if he ordered Gonzales to visit Ashcroft in the hospital to get him to approve the wire-tapping plan. [Bush dodges the question, twice.](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/17/bush-comey-dodge/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/82 "2007-05-17T23:46:58Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] That’s what they _say_. How will they _vote_? [/QUOTE] Unless and until it comes down to [impeachment,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=421269) they don’t **get** to vote. (They might vote in the vote of no confidence, but that’s like a nonbinding resolution – W can ignore it.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/83 "2007-05-17T23:48:35Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] NBC reporter asks Bush point blank if he ordered Gonzales to visit Ashcroft in the hospital to get him to approve the wire-tapping plan. [Bush dodges the question, twice.](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/17/bush-comey-dodge/) [/QUOTE] . . . I had thought that, WRT this Administration, I had long since passed the saturation/fatigue point for being shocked, surprised or outraged . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/84 "2007-05-17T23:51:58Z")
Here’s a new one: [50 U.S. attorneys asked Gonzalez to investigate the oil industry; he refused.](http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=386) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/85 "2007-05-18T01:01:26Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] NBC reporter asks Bush point blank if he ordered Gonzales to visit Ashcroft in the hospital to get him to approve the wire-tapping plan. [Bush dodges the question, twice.](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/17/bush-comey-dodge/) [/QUOTE] So couldn’t Congress just subpoena Andy Card and ask him who ordered him to go to Ashcroft’s hospital room? I smell a special prosecutor… ---
**Author:** ![Spiral\_Stairs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Spiral\_Stairs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiral_Stairs)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/86 "2007-05-18T13:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Here’s a new one: [50 U.S. attorneys asked Gonzalez to investigate the oil industry; he refused.](http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=386) [/QUOTE] It was 50 Attorneys General (who are state officials), not U.S. Attorneys (who are employed by the Department of Justice). Not that this clarification changes the thrust of Blumenthal’s argument that much, but it is important to note that it wasn’t 50 of Gonzales’s subordinates demanding an investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/87 "2007-05-19T01:15:06Z")
50 state AGs seems like a more serious charge to me, since whoever organized this would have had to convince the Attorney General of _every single state_ to go along with this. 50 USAs is barely more than half of the total. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/88 "2007-05-21T19:50:23Z")
Going back in this thread, I see that back in mid-March, I’d figured they’d have to sacrifice Gonzo in order to save Rove. It’s been a long time since I’ve been of that opinion. Now, I think the only way Gonzo would resign is under imminent threat of impeachment and conviction. He’s too valuable to Bush as a firewall. Imagine if Bush had to get Senate confirmation for a new AG - anyone who could be confirmed would probably prosecute a lot of things that would make the GOP very, very uncomfortable. So Gonzo stays, to prevent that outcome. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/89 "2007-05-21T19:57:04Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Going back in this thread, I see that back in mid-March, I’d figured they’d have to sacrifice Gonzo in order to save Rove. It’s been a long time since I’ve been of that opinion. Now, I think the only way Gonzo would resign is under imminent threat of impeachment and conviction. He’s too valuable to Bush as a firewall. Imagine if Bush had to get Senate confirmation for a new AG - anyone who could be confirmed would probably prosecute a lot of things that would make the GOP very, very uncomfortable. So Gonzo stays, to prevent that outcome. [/QUOTE] Firewall? Bear in mind that having Gonzalez in office might give the Dems an opening to **investigate** Rove. Example: The DOJ now says to the Senate: We don’t have the e-mails you subpoenaed, Karl Rove’s lawyer does. Story [here.](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/16/rove.documents/) > [@](#): > > In the subpoena, Leahy had demanded all documents in the possession of U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, who investigated Rove in connection with the disclosure of the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. > > But Assistant Attorney General Richard Hertling, Gonzales’ top link to Congress, told Leahy a search was conducted and turned up nothing. > > “None of those records are responsive to the committee’s subpoena. The electronic media was returned to Mr. Rove’s counsel, Mr. Robert Luskin, in a sealed condition,” Hertling said. You don’t think the committee is going to be satisfied with that, do you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/90 "2007-05-21T20:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Firewall? Bear in mind that having Gonzalez in office might give the Dems an opening to **investigate** Rove. Example: The DOJ now says to the Senate: We don’t have the e-mails you subpoenaed, Karl Rove’s lawyer does. Story [here.](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/16/rove.documents/) You don’t think the committee is going to be satisfied with that, do you? 😉 [/QUOTE] Good one! Let’s hope we get the goods on Rove, the baddest guy in the Universe. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/91 "2007-05-21T20:31:32Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] And I agree that Gonzales will be thrown under the bus to save Rove. I think Bush considers Rove his “brain,” such as it is. [/QUOTE] Paraphrasing Bill Maher on William Kristol: The GOP loves this guy for being the ‘brain’ of Dan Quayle. This sounded impressive until I remembered…Quayle didn’t have a brain. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/92 "2007-05-21T21:07:46Z")
Bush is still standing by his man: > [@](#): > > "He has got my confidence. He has done nothing wrong. There’s been enormous amount of attention on him, that there has been no wrongdoing on his part. He has testified in front of Congress. > > "And I, frankly, view what’s taking place in Washington today as pure political theater. And it is this kind of political theater that has caused the American people to lose confidence in how Washington operates. > > “I stand by Al Gonzales, and I would hope that people would be more sober in how they address these important issues. And they ought to get the job done of passing legislation, as opposed to figuring how to be actors on the political theater stage.” Man is this guy stubborn. I agree that AG is of supreme importance as an insulator/justifier of many of the worst decisions to emerge from the Exec. Branch, but I don’t know how much longer the evasions and lies and mounting documentation can be ignored. More and more Republicans are turning… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/93 "2007-05-21T21:19:25Z")
I love when he says, “he has done nothing wrong”. He never denies that Gonzo did what he is accused of, he just believes it was not wrong to do it. Simply define the act as “not wrong”, and you are in the clear. It is the same defense he used with waterboarding (“not torture”) and warrantless wiretaps (“not illegal”). He really believes that simple denial is a valid defense. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/94 "2007-05-21T21:50:43Z")
What pisses me off is the thought that Gonzo will resign and no one will prosecute the sonofabitch for his crimes. Somebody please tell me that he will be dragged into court and if found guilty, sent off to jail. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/95 "2007-05-21T21:53:26Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] What pisses me off is the thought that Gonzo will resign and no one will prosecute the sonofabitch for his crimes. Somebody please tell me that he will be dragged into court and if found guilty, sent off to jail. [/QUOTE] Gonzalez is clearly unfit for his office but it is unclear whether anything he has done constitutes a prosecutable crime. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/96 "2007-05-22T00:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] He really believes that simple denial is a valid defense. [/QUOTE] Well, they do make their own reality. And in the ninth year, Bush rested… ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/97 "2007-05-22T00:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Gonzalez is clearly unfit for his office but it is unclear whether anything he has done constitutes a prosecutable crime. [/QUOTE] Complicity in the implementation of NSA’s patently illegal wire tapping program? Complicity in the firing of the US Attorneys for political gain? Perjury - in his House and Senate testimony? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/98 "2007-05-22T00:41:41Z")
Every warrantless wiretap on an American citizen is a felony. Don’t worry though, we elected the Dems – there will be a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. “Please Mr. Gonzalez, send your e-mails and meeting minutes. This is the 2nd time we’ve asked. If you don’t comply this time we will be very upset and disappointed.” The easiest thing to do would be to cut the head off the snake by impeaching Mr. 28%. But no, Pelosi made sure to say impeachment is off the table when she was elected speaker back in Nov. Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/99 "2007-05-22T00:57:17Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] The easiest thing to do would be to cut the head off the snake by impeaching Mr. 28%. But no, Pelosi made sure to say impeachment is off the table when she was elected speaker back in Nov. Brilliant. [/QUOTE] And because Politician Pelosi said impeachment is off the table, you’re holding her to her word? marshmallow, you don’t know fluff when you hear it? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642/100 "2007-05-22T01:10:22Z")
Oh no, I believe her on this issue. Impeachment would be scary and might offend the GOP’s faithful 30% and the MSM. And the Dems want Bush and Gonzalez to bleed all the way up until 2008. It’d be amusing if the GOPers nervous about their future prospects start impeachment proceedings against Gonzo to salvage some credibility (the idea of the GOP impeaching Bush before the Dems is a personal fantasy of mine which I share for your amusement). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-ag-gonzalez-have-to-resign/395642.md?page=6)