# Will ALL Cabinet Confirmations Be Contentious From Now On? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 8, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139 "2017-05-08T17:32:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/21 "2017-05-09T05:14:31Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > My question is… will it be that way with all Cabinet nominees from now on? MOST Democrats have opposed most of Trump’s Cabinet nominees. Yeah yeah yeah, I know, Democrats will claim that Trump is different, that HIS nominees are uniquely objectionable, that “normal” conservative nominees to the Cabinet won’t get the same treatment. But I’m not sure I buy it. _Really_. You remember Michael Brown, Bush’s head of FEMA? You remember how that went? _Almost every noteworthy Trump cabinet member is as unqualified as he was._ The reason for the disproportionate opposition to Trump’s nominees is because Trump nominated some of the _worst_ nominees anyone had ever seen. People who were fundamentally opposed to the position they held. People who had proposed eliminating the position they held. People who didn’t fucking know what the position was even _for_. I’m sure it’s convenient for republicans to paint this as the new normal. If they do, when the democrats regain power, they can respond to sane, reasonable nominees whose politics they disagree with by saying, “Hey, welcome to the new normal. You treated DeVos like this, so we’re going to treat this new guy who holds mainstream views on public education, knows the difference between proficiency and growth, and served as the head of a massive public schooling district as though he’s just as awful.” But that’s a _shamelessly_ dishonest gambit. I challenge you, name me _one_ Obama nominee who was as embarrassingly unqualified for their position as Ben Carson was to lead Housing and Urban Development. Name me _one_ Obama nominee who knew as little about the position they took as Rick Perry. Name me _one_ Obama nominee as fundamentally opposed to the goals of their department as Scott Pruitt. Name me _one_ Obama nominee as fundamentally _wrong_ as Betsy DeVos. For fuck’s sake, Jeff Sessions, the head of the government organ tasked with dealing with civil rights issues, was considered “too racist” to take on the position of federal judge back in the 80s, and there’s no fucking indication that anything had changed since then. These aren’t normal nominees. Any sane government would have laughed them out of the room, not [literally arrested someone for laughing when people blatantly lied about their records](https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/5/8/15578850/sessions-confirmation-laugh-desiree-fairooz)! These people saw contention because they have _no fucking business taking these jobs_. You can’t just paper over that by pretending that this is somehow the new normal. I’m sure republicans are gonna try, but it’s going to be incredibly stupid and dishonest, and I _really_ hope the US populace isn’t fucking _stupid_ enough to fall for it. > [@](#): > > I suspect that the treatment Jeff Sessions, Betsy DeVos and Friends got is the New Normal. I believe EVERY Republican Cabinet nominee will get the third degree from now on, and that NONE will ever again get a majority of Democrat Senators. As others have pointed out: this is bullshit. Several of _Trump’s_ nominees got the majority of Democrat senators. Mattis got 98 votes. > [@](#): > > What say? Am I imagining things? Is Trump an outlier _FUCKING YES!!!_ Christ almighty, I cannot believe we have to explain this! YES! Trump is an outlier! Trump’s cabinet is an outlier! We have _never before_ seen a cabinet this fucking awful. > [@Shodan](#): > > And if the next President is a Democrat, this is also the reaction his/her/its nominees can expect. Except it will be inexcusable obstructionism. > > Regards, > Shodan See above. There is a significant difference between a Betsy DeVos and an Arne Duncan. If democrats start nominating people fundamentally unsuited for the job, with no prior relevant job experience, who wanted to demolish the department, then you might have a point. But I don’t see that happening, because democrats actually _care_ about good governance. They _want_ government positions to be filled by people who will actually do the job _well_, and not fucking morons who don’t even know what the job entails but still see fit to bloviate about how it shouldn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/22 "2017-05-09T05:20:33Z")
Sure, there will be a difference between Trump’s nominees and a future Democratic president’s nominees. But good luck getting the American public to see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/23 "2017-05-09T05:23:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Heck, no. Garland was the compromise the Republicans suggested Obama offer them. Which they then refused to accept. > > If the Democrats take over Congress, Trump’s going to have to nominate a genuine Democrat not a moderate Republican if he wants to have any chance of getting his nominee confirmed. If Republicans lose control of the Senate in November 2018, then they have a two month period of time before the new majority takes control, in which they could amend Senate rules again - think nuclear option on steroids - so, for instance, perhaps requiring only 40 votes for nomination confirmation. So then Trump could nominate someone like Diane Sykes to replace Ginsburg and still get it through with 40+ GOP votes, even as the GOP was a Senate minority. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/24 "2017-05-09T05:25:11Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Trump can forget about making any Supreme Court nominations. Unless he were to appoint Garland. I’m pretty sure if Garland were the nominee to replace Ginsburg, he’d be called too conservative a replacement for RBG. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/25 "2017-05-09T05:52:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Christ almighty, I cannot believe we have to explain this! YES! Trump is an outlier! Trump’s cabinet is an outlier! We have _never before_ seen a cabinet this fucking awful. You don’t even live here. Why are you so OUTRAGED about the President’s Cabinet? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/26 "2017-05-09T06:21:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes. And I’ve been suggesting lately that this could lead to a national crisis – if one party happens to get “lucky” and swing the court one way or the other with a large majority of the 9 seats, angry members of the “losing” side might take to the streets. For the good of the country, we need to de-escalate SCOTUS battles, in my opinion. I agree, but how? And aren’t you the guy that welcomed the filibuster and nuclear option during Gorsuch’s confirmation? Some leftists are already talking openly about court-packing the next time they’re in power. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/27 "2017-05-09T06:22:05Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If Republicans lose control of the Senate in November 2018, then they have a two month period of time before the new majority takes control, in which they could amend Senate rules again - think nuclear option on steroids - so, for instance, perhaps requiring only 40 votes for nomination confirmation. So then Trump could nominate someone like Diane Sykes to replace Ginsburg and still get it through with 40+ GOP votes, even as the GOP was a Senate minority. And once the new Senate takes over they can amend the rules right back to 50. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/28 "2017-05-09T09:22:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If Republicans lose control of the Senate in November 2018, then they have a two month period of time before the new majority takes control, in which they could amend Senate rules again - think nuclear option on steroids - so, for instance, perhaps requiring only 40 votes for nomination confirmation. So then Trump could nominate someone like Diane Sykes to replace Ginsburg and still get it through with 40+ GOP votes, even as the GOP was a Senate minority. The Democrats could change the rules right back in this case. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/29 "2017-05-09T09:25:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I agree, but how? And aren’t you the guy that welcomed the filibuster and nuclear option during Gorsuch’s confirmation? Some leftists are already talking openly about court-packing the next time they’re in power. Yes - there’s no going back without a sea change. I don’t think the Democrats should back down one inch (and doing so would be politically suicidal, I think). That doesn’t change my concern that there needs to be such a sea change for the good of the country. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/30 "2017-05-09T11:51:59Z")
We’ll see what happens when the Democrats elect a white president or Republicans elect a non-sociopath. We’ve seen Republicans demonstrate that their base will not allow them to work constructively with a black president and that Democrats will not work with a buffoon who insists on nominating people who want to blow up the departments that they will lead. Have Republicans poisoned the well so much that it can never be drunk from again? We’ll see. But this is not another case of “WAAAAAH! Your side does it TOOOOOOOOOOOO!” There’s a difference between race being the motivating factor and incompetence/disinterest/evil being the factors. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/31 "2017-05-09T13:39:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But this is not another case of “WAAAAAH! Your side does it TOOOOOOOOOOOO!” There’s a difference between race being the motivating factor and incompetence/disinterest/evil being the factors. Sure it is, at least to me. And I for one am utterly unconvinced that race was the motivating factor in ignoring Garland’s nomination. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/32 "2017-05-09T13:44:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sure it is, at least to me. And I for one am utterly unconvinced that race was the motivating factor in ignoring Garland’s nomination. Eight years of obstruction were based on race and race alone. Republicans knew they could exploit the racism in their base by refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of the Obama presidency and obstructing him on everything. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/33 "2017-05-09T14:33:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Some leftists are already talking openly about court-packing the next time they’re in power. Some conservatives are talking about that RIGHT NOW. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/34 "2017-05-09T14:37:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You don’t even live here. Why are you so OUTRAGED about the President’s Cabinet? Because he’s still an American citizen. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/35 "2017-05-09T15:06:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Eight years of obstruction were based on race and race alone. I’m still utterly unconvinced. If you haven’t picked up on it by now, maybe I should spell it out for you: your unsupported assertions aren’t convincing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/36 "2017-05-09T15:07:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Some conservatives are talking about that RIGHT NOW. I wasn’t aware of that. Could I get a link? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/37 "2017-05-09T15:13:12Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You don’t even live here. Why are you so OUTRAGED about the President’s Cabinet? Oh don’t bring that jingoistic bullshit in here. Even if I wasn’t an American citizen. Even if I didn’t have friends and family members in the states who are directly affected by these things (including a number of LGBT individuals who are currently watching important legal protections like “the ability to go to the bathroom without exacerbating dangerous mental disorders” get rolled back and dismantled). Even if it weren’t the case that I _weep_ for my home country and what has become of it just as much as I weep for how clear it has become that my beautiful hometown is full of primarily nationalistic redneck _douchecunts_ who know just as little about the world as the average member of Trump’s cabinet does and going back to one of the most beautiful places on the goddamn planet entails having to come face to face with people whose existence makes me feel like the human race was a failed experiment. Even if you set all that aside, the fact is that the USA, stomping around on the world stage, has _huge_ feet. Feet that often set the tone for international politics. Scott Pruitt is actively making the world a worse place no matter _where_ I live. Betsy DeVos’s changes to the school system will have catastrophic effects down the line which, due to the science output of the USA, will suck for everyone else in the world just as much. And the idea that Rick Perry is in charge of our nuclear arsenal, when he previously didn’t even know that the department he now heads and previously wanted to eliminate had anything to do with nukes should send a chill down _everyone’s_ spine. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/38 "2017-05-09T15:23:15Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Even if it weren’t the case that I _weep_ for my home country and what has become of it just as much as I weep for how clear it has become that my beautiful hometown is full of primarily nationalistic redneck _douchecunts_ who know just as little about the world as the average member of Trump’s cabinet does and going back to one of the most beautiful places on the goddamn planet entails having to come face to face with people whose existence makes me feel like the human race was a failed experiment. Your weeping might elicit more concern / sympathy / caring if you weren’t calling your former neighbors “douchecunts” in the same breath. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/39 "2017-05-09T15:57:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your weeping might elicit more concern / sympathy / caring if you weren’t calling your former neighbors “douchecunts” in the same breath. It’s a language they would understand. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139/40 "2017-05-09T16:15:59Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > It’s a language they would understand. Weep away then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-cabinet-confirmations-be-contentious-from-now-on/786139.md?page=3)