# Will all real creationists please stand up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949 "2008-11-29T18:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/141 "2008-12-03T15:28:04Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > **Huitzilopochtli:** Uh, no. Actually you should have been making daily sacrifices to me all along. Dying in battle would have been a good idea too. Too late now. Enjoy the underworld! Not to worry. Eventually he will return from Mictlan to the land of the living. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/142 "2008-12-03T15:29:23Z")
[quote=“cosmosdan, post:138, topic:474949”] Are you sure? Using Matt5:48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. The only way we can be perfect is if God acts through us. As I stated God uses our imperfection and makes it perfect. Going on transcription errors, in our imperfection we may make a mistake, but if done in the Spirit of God that is perfection as He will make it perfect by allowing the reader, acting in the Spirit, to uncover the hidden truth. > [@](#): > > Here’s an example that allows me to explain my point. I’m not trying to discredit or minimize the importance of the Bible. In all sincerity, I think it’s a wonderful study tool and has been an important part of my own spiritual journey beginning with my time as a Christian. Over the years my beliefs have changed and I’ve some to see that the source of inspiration, teaching and enlightenment is that living spirit within us. There’s still a lot to understand but I see it as our connection to God the source of all knowledge. The passages that support this concept are numerous. > Gog grants wisdom to all who ask. That seems to fit with the concept of God loving all men equally. to support this we have > > Another I’ve already mentioned > and > Over and Over again in the Bible we see that God sees the true intent of a person. Beyond what we give lip service to and even beyond what we are consciously aware of. I agree with this > [@](#): > > IMHO that means any person seeking the truth regardless of the limits of human language and the details of culture and tradition, church synagogue, temple or mosque, mountain top or laboratory, will find truth. As you said before, “aspects of the truth mixed in with man made rules.” We are still learning and limited. The journey continues. > > Trusting in those spiritual principles, our ability to seek and find the truth, our ability to connect with God, the source, we don’t need to elevate any writings above all others. We can study the Bible and other books with faith that a sincere heart seeking the truth will connect with that guiding spirit and ultimately, the truth will become apparent. I think you make a dangerous leap here. While it is true that God will work all things for the good for those who Love Him and called according to His purpose, I would hesitate to say that this would work for many as many other books lead people away from the Lord purposely. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/143 "2008-12-03T15:44:01Z")
[quote=“kanicbird, post:135, topic:474949”] Here again is where God steps in, using our imperfectness to make perfection. God knows we are not perfect, He does not want us to try to be perfect. Ahem. [QUOTE Jesus;] You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matt. 5:43-48). I love it when the Babblewavers don’t even know their own “holy” Babble. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/144 "2008-12-03T16:12:46Z")
I’m still interested in the proof that the Jewish/Christian God is the right God and all the other ones that form parts of the other religions in this world are false. Did we get that? I’ve just read through the thread and I didn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/145 "2008-12-03T16:33:31Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I’m still interested in the proof that the Jewish/Christian God is the right God and all the other ones that form parts of the other religions in this world are false. Did we get that? I’ve just read through the thread and I didn’t find it. Because we have the Book and they don’t. Their books are all satanically inspired. Why they are less valid in thinking our Book is satanically inspired is beyond me. You’d think one way would be testing the Book against reality, but **kanicbird** specifically rejects this, no doubt because our Bible doesn’t come out very well. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/146 "2008-12-03T19:12:52Z")
[quote=“Mapache, post:143, topic:474949”] > [@kanicbird](#): > > Here again is where God steps in, using our imperfectness to make perfection. God knows we are not perfect, He does not want us to try to be perfect. > > Ahem. > [QUOTE Jesus;] > You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matt. 5:43-48). > > I love it when the Babblewavers don’t even know their own “holy” Babble. **Mapache** I answered this above: The only way we can be perfect is if God acts through us. As I stated God uses our imperfection and makes it perfect. Going on transcription errors, in our imperfection we may make a mistake, but if done in the Spirit of God that is perfection as He will make it perfect by allowing the reader, acting in the Spirit, to uncover the hidden truth. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/147 "2008-12-03T19:16:10Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Because we have the Book and they don’t. Their books are all satanically inspired. > > Why they are less valid in thinking our Book is satanically inspired is beyond me. You’d think one way would be testing the Book against reality, but **kanicbird** specifically rejects this, no doubt because our Bible doesn’t come out very well. I do now, but didn’t at one time. I used to test scriptures against ‘reality’ and found as you did they didn’t match up. But after following the instructions in the Word I tested ‘reality’ against the Word and it does match and our ‘reality’ is revealed as what it really is, just a shadow of what is true and real. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/148 "2008-12-03T19:22:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I think it would be fair to say that in general and apply to most people, though there may be cases where the Lord has finished trying to call one, and has no use for that person anymore on earth and will just save them at the end. Is it morally expected of me that I move to, say, regions where earthquakes and natural disasters are more common so that others may benefit from the protection I have? Likewise, if I see someone being robbed at gunpoint, am I morally obliged to step in front of the gun, as by doing so I risk nothing but may save lives? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/149 "2008-12-03T19:33:26Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Is it morally expected of me that I move to, say, regions where earthquakes and natural disasters are more common so that others may benefit from the protection I have? Likewise, if I see someone being robbed at gunpoint, am I morally obliged to step in front of the gun, as by doing so I risk nothing but may save lives? Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. This goes along the lines of ‘do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ Now if the Lord tells you to do so that’s another matter. In that extent He has told me to put myself in dangerous situations, and He has delivered me. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/150 "2008-12-03T19:41:39Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I do now, but didn’t at one time. I used to test scriptures against ‘reality’ and found as you did they didn’t match up. But after following the instructions in the Word I tested ‘reality’ against the Word and it does match and our ‘reality’ is revealed as what it really is, just a shadow of what is true and real. You make me nostalgic for the sixties, when people wore “Reality is a Crutch” buttons. They had drugs, you have religions, and I’m glad I use neither. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/151 "2008-12-03T20:07:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > As I stated God uses our imperfection and makes it perfect. Gaius Baltar, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/152 "2008-12-03T22:34:41Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. This goes along the lines of ‘do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ But surely there’s a difference between, say, someone electing to use their immortality to prove or disprove the existence of God, and someone simply utilising it in the course of their life to do good. After all, by the logic that to test God means simply to rely upon his aid in the faith that it will be provided, then to translate the Bible is to necessarily test God. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that if translating the Bible correctly is a matter of the intention of the translator, likewise to try and extend one’s protective immortality to others is likewise so? > [@](#): > > Now if the Lord tells you to do so that’s another matter. In that extent He has told me to put myself in dangerous situations, and He has delivered me. But, surely, by asking people to save life and to attempt to deliver others to him, he is asking that? Or is there a difference in priority between things God says in the Bible and things God says to a person individually? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/153 "2008-12-03T23:01:06Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But surely there’s a difference between, say, someone electing to use their immortality to prove or disprove the existence of God, and someone simply utilising it in the course of their life to do good. Part of the issue is, though we think we can do good, we really can’t know as we don’t have perfect knowledge. So using immortality to do what you think is good will fall short of ‘good’. Now there is nothing wrong with trying to do good as part of your life coming to God, before He gives you His Spirit, as God does judge the heart, and even if what you did is not good, if you intended good that will please God, and btw if your heart is pure you will see God. God also says all our (man’s) righteousness is nothing but filthy rags (referring to menstrual rags). So why would God want you leaving all filthy rags around? I’d say that may be a reason for Him to frustrate your efforts, so you focus on Him, and not on your mighty deeds. We are really to live sensible until He starts guiding our lives. > [@](#): > > After all, by the logic that to test God means simply to rely upon his aid in the faith that it will be provided, then to translate the Bible is to necessarily test God. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say that if translating the Bible correctly is a matter of the intention of the translator, likewise to try and extend one’s protective immortality to others is likewise so? But, surely, by asking people to save life and to attempt to deliver others to him, he is asking that? Or is there a difference in priority between things God says in the Bible and things God says to a person individually? The Bible is the test to judge what He says, to see if it’s really Him, as there will be times another spirit will pretend to be God, tell you things and the way we figure that out is to compare what He says to His Word. I as a believer & follower, who God has given strong faith, know I can’t put myself in danger and expect divine protection unless He tells me to, why would He allow that for the person who is seeking? This is not what He wants. He wants to teach you His ways, and He is not going to start teaching something He will later revoke. My personal road to the Lord Jesus, much like that video, started from direct service of the enemy and contact with them (though I was deceived into their service - long story, but I never intentionally harmed anyone). It was a long and very tormenting journey, it was full of little steps, where He build my faith along the way. Eventually giving me bigger and bigger steps. Either way leave how God wants to prove Himself to you to Him. It’s not up to you to determine how He speaks to you. That’s what makes Him Lord, and us His servants, flipping it around is the work of the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/154 "2008-12-03T23:22:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I do now, but didn’t at one time. I used to test scriptures against ‘reality’ and found as you did they didn’t match up. But after following the instructions in the Word I tested ‘reality’ against the Word and it does match and our ‘reality’ is revealed as what it really is, just a shadow of what is true and real. Please could you give a clear, concrete example of this? (Before and after would be good). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/155 "2008-12-04T04:17:34Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The Bible is the test to judge what He says, to see if it’s really Him, as there will be times another spirit will pretend to be God, tell you things and the way we figure that out is to compare what He says to His Word. You know, a clever non-God spirit could presumably take the precaution of creating his own scripture. How do you know the Bible is really the word of the One True God and not a clever forgery? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/156 "2008-12-04T04:34:21Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > You know, a clever non-God spirit could presumably take the precaution of creating his own scripture. How do you know the Bible is really the word of the One True God and not a clever forgery? Well for one thing it’s not very clever. It’s full of stupidity and primitive thinking. There are contradictions in the information it presents as factual and it has a deeply flawed view of cosmology that is demonstrably wrong from Genisis on up. No, if the bible were written by a supernatural force, it was written by a profoundly stupid supernatural force with no special insight. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/157 "2008-12-04T05:41:31Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I may consider some of them satanically or demonically inspired, as such they may contain truths presented in ways that are deceptive. So apparently you believe James 1:5 isn’t true. > [@](#): > > Yes, but acting in the Holy Spirit. We simply can not do the work he wants on our own, He must work through us. God is Love, it is God that must Love through us. We can not Love one another as Jesus Loves, but we are required to Love as He Love, the only way to reconcile this is if He Loves through us, which would have to be through His Spirit. There are plenty of passages about the spirit working in us. IMO the same spirit that leads us into all truth also teaches us to love. It helps us understand what real love is and get rid of all the things we often mistake for love. I Cor 13 is helpful for that also. According to my reading those who truly seek love will find it. That would include men like Gandhi who lived a life of service to his fellow men but was a Hindu. > [@](#): > > To > > The question is who is Jesus’ brothers and sisters. He defines it here > The reason is those who do the will of the Father have Jesus living inside them. By helping them out you ARE doing those things (giving food, comfort, etc.) to the Lord Himself. That;s an interesting interpretation but I read it more like the story of the Good Samaritan in which the heart reflected in the deeds of kindness, matter more than labels. Jesus doesn’t ask us to just show loving kindness to believers does he? Read the whole passage. When Jesus addresses the cursed and they ask when they saw him. he responds. > [@](#): > > 5"He will answer them, ‘I’m telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me—you failed to do it to me.’ from the Message. The interpretation is about people in need not just believers. The fact that those who preformed these acts of kindness didn’t know shows they probably weren’t followers of Christ. Otherwise they wouldn’t have questioned their reward. > [@](#): > > While it’s true that all creation is to speak of and point to and praise the Creator and God can and does use other things to speak to us, His Word is a prime way of doing it. yes, his word being a living spirit rather than anything written. > [@](#): > > Going on personal experiencing at one dark time in my life I was involved with worship of the enemy, I assure you that they can provide this sense, including intense feelings of extacy, but at _ **extreme** _ cost. They take you away from the true God, making your trip to Him very long and hard. They will do anything they can to do this, even offer ‘power’ and or ‘wisdom’ and the like. The simple measure to judge taught by Jesus is to look at the fruits of the spirit to discern the spirit. > [@](#): > > Bold mine. My WAG is you will never get this from a person. It is what God is willing to reveal to you personally. Something He leads you to figure out, and when the pieces come together it is a glorious moment, like a vale removed from your mind. That’s a handy way to avoid explaining the problems. So the Spirit will preserve the written Word down through the ages, and then explain to you and some others why the apparent evidence of conflicts, contradictions, and changes, aren’t real, but not allow you or the others to explain it to me or write it in some manner that makes sense. I think you’ll understand why that just seems like one more irrational justification. > [@](#): > > As for the traditions taught and handed down by man, they IMHO get in the way. Agreed, and we mentioned before that all religions contain them. > [@](#): > > I’d have to go with my own experience, I asked God about other ‘inspired’ writings, He said to go with the Bible as a copy of His Word. And when two people who believe the spirit is guiding them don’t agree what happens then? > [@](#): > > In asking this question you have to assume that there is a God who wants His Word known and available. As a living spirit it’s always available to everyone. I can easily believe that man has been moved to try and express his experience with God in writing and those writings can be very useful to the seeker. as 2 Tim. says > [@](#): > > 3:16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, it says it’s useful. > [@](#): > > It is the odds on favorite because of intelligent design IMHO, it is designed by a all knowing/powerful being to accomplish just that, which would seem to indicate a single source, which is the Word and is God. Once again this seems like forced logic to support a preconceived notion. > [@](#): > > I would say love is not Love. The love of man is not the same as the Love of God acting through the believer. If God is the well from which all love is drawn then it is the same. The difference IMO is learning to love truly and reject all those things mankind often mistakes for love. > [@](#): > > Again you are making the assumption that the books of the Bible are works of man, not a complete work of God before the world was created. The author is God Himself, just written down by His servants, in this case Saint John. Um, it appears you are the one making the assumption. Yes I assume the Bible was written by men because all the evidence points to that. You’re making a doctrinal assumption unsupported by the Bible. > [@](#): > > There is also a warning of this type in Proverbs 30:6, “Do not ad to His Words or He will rebuke you and call you a liar” If man made passages were slipped in, would not God have rebuked us and called us a liar in a way that those passages would be removed? Why would he? My take on free will says men can and have changed the original text. > [@](#): > > Single source does however. We are to go to Him and Him alone, the pattern would hold that His Word would be presented as single source. There’s no way to twist logic and make that consistent. > [@](#): > > Do we have those books? Did Paul even do things in his own effort? It’s trust in God that He preserved His Word. I repeat, it’s an unsupported assumption that the Bible was ever God’s plan. > [@](#): > > I’d say it’s trust in God and listening to Him above man. That’s a good idea if people could agree on what God was saying. > [@](#): > > Lets look at the Word vs scriptures. There are 3 versions of the 10 commandments in scriptures, all different. But though the text may differ, the Word, spoken to our heart is consistent across all 3. I’m afraid that doesn’t explain why people who believe the Bible is the word of God and the Holy Spirit teaches them what it means, still don’t agree with each other. > [@](#): > > Our paths IMHO are very limited, including what exactly we can do with the copy of the Word. Once again, this is in direct contradiction to the copies of scriptures we possess and what Biblical scholars say. > [@](#): > > If you hold it in high esteem, why not follow His instruction in it as a way to find all truths? Perhaps you believe you are doing exactly that. I believe my beliefs are perfectly compatible with what Jesus taught. As far as all truth goes, I trust that to my ongoing spiritual journey and the guiding spirit I try to follow. Written words are tools and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/158 "2008-12-04T13:32:30Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > You know, a clever non-God spirit could presumably take the precaution of creating his own scripture. How do you know the Bible is really the word of the One True God and not a clever forgery? Haven’t you been reading? Because God said so. But seriously folks, beliefs can be hard to accept and equally hard to let go of for a variety of reasons. Part of it is the emotional make up of a person and what they get from their chosen religion or lack of it. The blend of intellectual honesty and emotional honesty is very hard to gauge. People get very attached to their particular church and find it hard to consider that key beliefs may be wrong. I’ve sometimes compared it to finding out something bad about someone you really love and revere. The initial reaction is to reject it. Conversely, someone may find a belief system meaningful and attractive but be concerned about what their friends might say if they suddenly got religion. The parable of the sower is about that in Mat 13:1-23; Mark 4:1-25, Luke 8:4-18. I think it’s wise and appropriate for people to hold their religions beliefs provisionally but many do not. Their see their “truths” as absolute regardless of the evidence. Maybe we need a parable about that hmmmmmmm, ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/159 "2008-12-04T13:58:08Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Please could you give a clear, concrete example of this? (Before and after would be good). While I do have many, most are just as complex as proving evolution theory. There are many many facets. So instead of proving a big theory, I will chose a small aspect. That of slavery. We assume in the US that Abe Lincoln freed the slaves, but did he really? or did he further the illusion that slavery is ended and made it much more hidden and deceptive? (No doubt that some were freed however) Are blacks still enslaved in chains and prisons, but in a much more deceptive way to turn the blacks against whites (the man) and have the whites think blacks are inferior? I’ve heard it said why can’t (inner city blacks) just clean up their act, get a job and stick to it, better themselves and move to better places. Some of the conclusions that we can perceive are listed in the above paragraph, but is this the real reason. God has shown me no, blacks were taken into bondage because they worshiped other gods, and taken captive just like the Israeli people were by Assyria, or Judah by Babylon. They are being held in captivity and physically can not better themselves. Their captors will not let them as they benefit from their captivity. Now every so ofter some do break free, which has always been the case (since the Tower of Babel), sometimes there are mass exoduses. One such exodus I believe is New Orleans. One of the hardest hit areas is the 9th Ward, which was below sea level, and a black ‘slum’. God has shown me that Ward is a prison term (Names are very important to God), and it is ‘below ground’ or underground. These people were sitting in cells below ground suffering in chains. God freed His people, though they are now wandering through the ‘desert’ now, totally dependent on God for their needs, and not leading a pleasant life. But I believe they are on their way to the promised land. Some people think they are doing good at rebuilding N.O. but He has shown me that in reality they are being deceived into luring back some of the slaves back into slavery, and some will go back. This is the deception of the world we are in, and how it’s made out like we are fighting each other, when in reality: [QUOTE=Eph 6:12] For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949/160 "2008-12-04T14:06:00Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > You know, a clever non-God spirit could presumably take the precaution of creating his own scripture. How do you know the Bible is really the word of the One True God and not a clever forgery? For me it’s the power of God, and the transformation of my life. As I mentioned in another post, at one time I did get into worship of the enemy, and I did experience their powers and read their ‘books of wisdom’ Both at the time seemed very much above man’s wisdom and far beyond our power. They seemed freeing. But God came to me and showed me His power, immediately the enemy’s power seemed very very dark and imprisoning and very very small. The path that God has me on has turned my life around and I’ve been used by Him to free others. I have surrendered my life to Jesus, I asked for no terms or conditions, He is my Lord and I Love Him. He is the one that I have chosen to follow (though it was He who chose me). He has shown me what He wants me to consider scriptures, and other times inspired writings. So the Bible is given to me by my Lord, that’s how I know. If it’s a clever forgery that’s OK, because that’s what my Lord has given me and if he is deceiving me then that’s what will be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-all-real-creationists-please-stand-up/474949.md?page=9)