# Will Bernard Kerik be killed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158 "2011-10-10T07:21:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/21 "2011-10-11T02:27:36Z")
Wouldn’t Kerik mostly have put people in New York State lock-ups, and not Federal medium security penitentiaries? Do violent offenders whom one would think be capable of cold-blooded murder typically end up in medium security prisons? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/22 "2011-10-11T03:10:34Z")
I think our assumptions in this regard are highly influenced by fictional TV, where a high rate of inmate homicides in prison populations is a dramatic given. Apparently, however, [this is not the case](http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/shsplj.pdf), at least since about 1980 (see page 11 of the linked document). Although this paper deals mainly with murder/suicide rates for county and state-level institutions rather than federal prisons, the data still suggests that Mr. Kerik and, frankly, most adult males, would be at greater risk risk of murder outside the Big House than in. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/23 "2011-10-11T06:22:27Z")
If Kerik was as massive corrupt as it appears, then lots of criminals _loved_ him because he could be bought off. And the richer the criminal (and therefor all the more able put out a contract on Kerik) the more likely it was that Kerik was in his pocket, and the criminal would have no reason to put out a contract. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/24 "2011-10-11T06:23:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If Kerik was as massive corrupt as it appears, then lots of criminals _loved_ him because he could be bought off. And the richer the criminal (and therefor all the more able put out a contract on Kerik) the more likely it was that Kerik was in his pocket, and the criminal would have no reason to put out a contract. Doing business with some shady figures doesn’t necessarilly mean he would deal with say a Mafia boss. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/25 "2011-10-11T06:29:56Z")
Taking large bribes from criminals almost guarantees he was taking large bribes from organized criminals, i.e., the Mob. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/26 "2011-10-20T20:16:32Z")
It’s unlikely he’ll be killed. The American criminal underworld just doesn’t have its shit together the way movies (and sometimes law enforcement) imply it does. And the criminals who do have their shit together would probably see little reward in ordering the murder of an imprisoned former police official. Protective custody is usually pretty effective in prisons, although this is going to vary depending on which specific prison you’re looking at. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. There’s a La Cosa Nostra fellow named Joel Cacace currently on trial for murdering a police officer in the 90s. Bizarrely enough, the reason for the murder was that the cop had married Cacace’s ex-wife. The shooter snitched Cacace out a decade later. Cacace also admitted to ordering a prosecutor killed. However, the hit men mistook the prosecutor’s father, who happened to be a judge, for his son and murdered him. The suspected hit men were then also murdered, allegedly by other gangsters who believed that targeting government officials was bad for business. So yeah, it does occasionally happen, but it’s usually a shit show. [http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-02-10/news/28611860\_1](http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-02-10/news/28611860_1) [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny\_crime/2010/01/26/2010-01-26\_feds\_in\_deal\_with\_capo\_in\_97\_cop\_slay.html](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/01/26/2010-01-26_feds_in_deal_with_capo_in_97_cop_slay.html) > **[Mob Figure Admits Roles In Murders, Including Judge's (Published 2004)](https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/14/nyregion/mob-figure-admits-roles-in-murders-including-judge-s.html?scp=1&sq=Joel%2BCacace&st=nyt)** > > Joel J Cacace, who prosecutors say is acting boss of Colombo crime family, pleads guilty to racketeering charges; acknowledges playing central role in 1987 murder of lawyer and administrative law judge George M Aronwald, who was gunned down by hit... > **[THE WHACK-Y WISEGUY WORLD – MOB BOSS CHARGED IN BOTCHED ‘87 RUBOUT](https://nypost.com/2003/01/23/the-whack-y-wiseguy-world-mob-boss-charged-in-botched-87-rubout/)** > > A reputed mob boss was charged yesterday with arranging to whack a former Mafia-busting prosecutor in a 1987 hit that was botched when misfit mobsters took out the lawyer’s elderly father by … ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/27 "2011-10-20T21:42:12Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > That’s true, but during the 80s, Kerik was an undercover detective in the NYPD and he put a huge number of figures connected to international drug cartels in prison. Some of them are probably _still_ in prison. Sleazeball that he is, he probably planted evidence on a lot of innocent people. Maybe he should worry about them. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/28 "2011-10-20T21:45:00Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > They shouldn’t, but all of the prisoners who are at increased risk should be protected more. Gays, young offenders, whites in a majority-nonwhite prison, or any other racial minority (minority within the prison, not in society at large), ex-cops, and informers, when they are sentenced to prison, are at greater risk, and they need to be highly protected. They are in essence getting a harsher sentence than someone sentenced to an identical prison term who lacks those risk factors, and that means that fairness is not being practiced. The playing field needs to be leveled. You could say that about almost anyone sentenced to prison. It never ceases to disgust me how almost EVERYBODY, not just late-night comedians, think it’s a big joke that men are likely to be gang-raped in prison. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/29 "2011-10-20T22:04:48Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > You could say that about almost anyone sentenced to prison. It never ceases to disgust me how almost EVERYBODY, not just late-night comedians, think it’s a big joke that men are likely to be gang-raped in prison. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/30 "2011-10-20T22:37:07Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I mean, it bothers me, but not on the same visceral level that I am bothered by murder, rape, forcible mugging and other crimes that were massively reduced directly because of Kerik’s leadership of the police department. It bothers me _more_. IMO, I’d like to see severe cases of abuse of office be punished far, far more harshly. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/31 "2011-10-22T20:52:03Z")
The breadth of Kerik’s corruption came out when Bush nominated him for Homeland Security secretary. Seemed a new scandal, unconnected to the previous ones, broke about him every day during the week before he withdrew his nomination, allegedly because he had a ‘nanny problem.’ AFAIAC, he should rot in jail. I’m good with having him put in solitary if he’s worried about his safety; let him talk to himself for 23 hours a day. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/32 "2011-10-22T21:56:38Z")
I have no sympathy for Kerik. He was a cop and that means he should be held to a higher standard not an easier one. And he was making a good living honestly; he had no overwhelming need to break the law. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/33 "2011-10-22T21:59:52Z")
Kerik was not a cop when he did what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/34 "2011-10-22T22:18:25Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Kerik was not a cop when he did what he did. Yes, he was only police commissioner, and after that was attempting to trade on his political influence. That certainly makes it all better. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158/35 "2011-10-22T23:21:10Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > Sleazeball that he is, he probably planted evidence on a lot of innocent people. Maybe he should worry about them. From wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Kerik worked from 1982 to 1984 as chief of investigations for the security division of the King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Six members of the hospital security staff, including Kerik, were fired and deported after an investigation in 1984 by the Saudi secret police.[13] Ok, the Saudi’s secret police are hardly models of blind justice. But Kerik wasn’t exactly booted out because of his activism either. My point is that reports of sleaze go back many years. And piling accolades on the guy on the basis of his autobiography seems highly dubious. There is good evidence that Kerik was super-corrupt. Does he really deserve credit for the managerial innovations? Was he really that superior to other vice cops in the late 1980s? After all, it was Willie Bratton who pushed reforms in a big way as Chief of Police and Commissioner (1990-1996). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernard-kerik-be-killed/599158.md?page=1)