# Will Bernie Sanders be the first socialist in the U.S. Senate? Will it matter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222 "2005-08-01T23:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/1 "2005-08-01T23:14:21Z")
Since 1991, Representative Bernie Sanders of Vermont ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie\_Sanders](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders)) has been the only independent and the only self-described socialist in the House of Representatives. Now he’s running for the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by Jim Jeffords. And he looks very likely to win – he’s incredibly popular in Vermont. See this story from _The Nation,_ 8/15/05 – [http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050815&c=1&s=nichols:](http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050815&c=1&s=nichols:) > [@](#): > > “It’s mind-boggling how popular Bernie is. And it’s not just progressives. People who tell you they have no interest in politics, who tell you they don’t trust any politicians, are the ones who love Bernie the most,” says Margrete Strand, who several years ago watched Sanders up close while she was running a campaign for a Democratic Senate candidate who lost (Sanders won his House seat by a landslide). Polls consistently identify Sanders as the most popular politician in the state, and election results confirm the survey research: He was re-elected in 2004 with more than two-thirds of the vote against a well-funded Republican challenger, sweeping not just his traditional base in Burlington but the vast majority of the state’s 251 rural towns. Now, with the decision of Republican-turned-independent Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords to step down, Sanders is the clear front-runner to win one of the few US Senate seats next year where no incumbent is running. True, he will still have to deal with the multimillion-dollar GOP attack campaign that is certain to target him, but with top Republicans backing away from the race, Democrats getting in line behind his candidacy–sometimes grudgingly, sometimes not–and polls showing him running 2 to 1 ahead of likely foes, he seems well positioned to make those calls of “Senator Sanders” official. If he wins – will it matter? It won’t change the balance of power in the Senate: The incumbent, Jeffords ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim\_Jeffords](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jeffords)), is an independent (former Republican) but caucuses with the Democrats, and Sanders presumably would do the same. And Sanders will be but one voice out of a hundred. On the other hand, he seems to be pioneering a new winning strategy. From the same article: > [@](#): > > Even if he were not a socialist, and even if he were not an independent who eschews most of the trappings of contemporary partisan politics–including those of a Democratic Party he sees as dramatically too centrist, too cautious and too unfocused to counter the country’s drift to the right–the enthusiasm Sanders inspires would be remarkable. That he attracts the support he does with what are generally portrayed as career-crushing liabilities in American politics has made his Senate campaign the subject of a good deal of fascination among progressives looking for a successful model in an era when too many Democrats seem to think the only way to win is by trimming their sails. When the question of the moment is, What’s the matter with Kansas? it’s no surprise that Democrats want to know how Sanders wins tough races in an overwhelmingly rural state by drawing the enthusiastic support of precisely the sort of white working-class voters Democrats have had such a hard time hanging on to in recent elections. > > Unfortunately, Sanders is not peddling easy fixes. What he has to teach is not a new scheme for organizing a campaign or raising money. There’s no Bernie Sanders gimmick. Rather, Sanders offers confirmation of a fundamental reality that too many progressive pols have forgotten: An ideologically muscular message delivered in a manner that crosses lines of class, region and partisanship is still the best strategy. “Bernie earned people’s trust over a long period of time by taking strong stands and sticking to them,” says Peter Freyne, a columnist for Burlington’s weekly newspaper, Seven Days. “There’s a connection between what the politician says and what the politician does. And it’s always there. The consistency of where he’s coming from and who he’s looking out for has been there since I started covering him in 1981.” > > There is nothing cautious about Sanders’s politics: He opposes the war in Iraq, he is an outspoken critic of the Patriot Act, he condemns corporations and he maintains a lonely faith that government really can do a lot of things–like guarantee healthcare for all–better than the private sector. Nor is there anything smooth or prepackaged or focus-group tested about the way he communicates. After almost thirty-five years of close to constant campaigning, first as the gadfly candidate of the left-wing Liberty Union Party for senator and governor in the 1970s, then as the radical mayor of “The People’s Republic of Burlington” in the 1980s and, since 1990, as the only independent in modern history to repeatedly win a US House seat, Sanders has forged relationships with generations of Vermont voters, many of whom echo the sentiments of Warren attorney Mark Grosby, who says, “I used to be a diehard Republican. Now, I’m a diehard for Bernie.” > > And, invariably, the connection was forged in a conversation about economics. To a greater extent, arguably, than any other progressive politician in the country, Sanders is identified with pocketbook issues. Spending a day with him in the small towns of Vermont is the equivalent of signing up for a walking seminar on the real-life struggles of working Americans–as played out on issues ranging from protecting Social Security, retirement plans and Medicare to expanding access to healthcare, lowering drug prices, raising the minimum wage, helping small businesses get started and keeping family farmers on the land. The conversations are a mix of personal anecdotes and broad-sweep policies, always pulled back by the Congressman to a discussion of the perils of corporate power and lobbying. To be sure, Sanders takes questions about the war in Iraq and other issues, but the breadth and depth of the discussions he gets into regarding the kitchen-table concerns of working Vermonters is remarkable. Will the Democrats, perhaps, learn from his example? Move their political center of gravity leftwards? Repudiate the economic “neoliberalism” of the Democratic Leadership Council and embrace real economic populism? And if they do – will it help them win? Or is it unthinkable that what works in Vermont would work anywhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/2 "2005-08-01T23:18:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Will the Democrats, perhaps, learn from his example? Move their political center of gravity leftwards? Repudiate the economic “neoliberalism” of the Democratic Leadership Council and embrace real economic populism? As someone who votes Republican most of the time, I certainly hope so. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/3 "2005-08-01T23:38:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Will the Democrats, perhaps, learn from his example? Move their political center of gravity leftwards? Repudiate the economic “neoliberalism” of the Democratic Leadership Council and embrace real economic populism? And if they do – will it help them win? Or is it unthinkable that what works in Vermont would work anywhere else? Vermont isn’t all that different. Yes, more of an appeal to populism would make a huge difference to the Democrats - Gore just dabbled with the appearance of it, didn’t seem all that sincere and certainly not at all credentialed, and still won. There’s a helluva lot more have-nots than haves, and they vote. Certainly offering an option to those who have been beaten down by the sagging economy but don’t have representation, and therefore vote for the party that claims to represent morality, would make a difference. Don’t expect any change in the New Democratic view that is not \*inherently \* hostile to business, but do expect a shift to a view that business must recognize responsibilities to the larger world. “Socialist”, too, is a label from the past with perhaps no real negative effect today. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/4 "2005-08-01T23:39:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Don’t expect any change in the New Democratic view that is not \*inherently \* hostile to business, but do expect a shift to a view that business must recognize responsibilities to the larger world. 😕 Are you sure the word “not” belongs in that sentence? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/5 "2005-08-01T23:55:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Will the Democrats, perhaps, learn from his example? Move their political center of gravity leftwards? Repudiate the economic “neoliberalism” of the Democratic Leadership Council and embrace real economic populism? And if they do – will it help them win? Or is it unthinkable that what works in Vermont would work anywhere else? I’m sure a lot of Republicans are licking their collective chops HOPING that the Democrats move leftward en masse to a more socialist platform described in your OP. Not going to happen IMHO because I don’t think there is a huge pool of voters out there craving a more radically leftward shift. Maybe they (the Republicans and me in this case) will be wrong and the country outside of Vermont and a few other east coast states really DO yearn for socialism or even just more leftists liberalism…I’m not seeing it but hey, I’ve been wrong lots of times and this could certainly be one of them. However, maybe Bernie Sanders is just, you know, a really popular guy who is well spoken and who folks like in spite of, not necessarily because of, his message. Sometimes folks get elected not on their message per se, but on…well, themselves. Or maybe his message has more of a regional appeal and not really a national appeal. -XT ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/6 "2005-08-01T23:58:41Z")
Upon rereading that, it doesn’t make sense to me, either. Yes, I do know grammar, dammit. Okay, try this: The New Democratic view was a shift away from worker protection to promoting business as the economic engine that shouldn’t be \*unduly \* interfered with. I’ve been inclined to think they established the party as centrist, balancing workers’ interests with stockholders’. Unfortunately, they did it at a time when the GOP was losing interest in workers’ economic interests and shifted to a nearly totally business orientation - and did so successfully by rousing workers to vote for them anyway by beating the Guns, God, and Gays drums and playing down the effects of their economic policies. That left nobody truly standing up for the little guy. But people tend to vote their pocketbooks over preaching. There’s a constituency there available for the wooing, it’s traditionally a Democratic one, and it won’t be that hard for the Democrats to woo it back if they simply seem sincere about it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/7 "2005-08-02T00:10:57Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m sure a lot of Republicans are licking their collective chops HOPING that the Democrats move leftward en masse to a more socialist platform described in your OP. > [@The Nation](#): > > He opposes the war in Iraq, he is an outspoken critic of the Patriot Act, he condemns corporations and he maintains a lonely faith that government really can do a lot of things–like guarantee healthcare for all–better than the private sector. . . > > . . . To a greater extent, arguably, than any other progressive politician in the country, Sanders is identified with pocketbook issues. Spending a day with him in the small towns of Vermont is the equivalent of signing up for a walking seminar on the real-life struggles of working Americans–as played out on issues ranging from protecting Social Security, retirement plans and Medicare to expanding access to healthcare, lowering drug prices, raising the minimum wage, helping small businesses get started and keeping family farmers on the land. Not really a “socialist platform,” is it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/8 "2005-08-02T00:25:41Z")
Will Bernie be the first socialist Senator? Yes Will it matter? No Despite what Elvis says, Vermont \*\*is \*\*different. First of all, almost everyone there (96%) is White-- it’s a very homegeneous population. Secondly, it’s tiny (only Wyoming has fewer people). Although it used to be staunchly Republican, the Democrats have been pretty well entrenched for the last 15 - 20 years. Remember, this is the land of [Ben and Jerry’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_and_Jerry). It’s hardly a microcosm of the US. Politics in such a small state can be highly personal, and Vermonters are notoriously independent. Dena will have a lot more impact on the Democrats (obviously) than Sanders, and one of the things that Dean has learned is that labels matter. If “liberal” is a dirty word in politics, “socialist” something no one will want to embrace. There’s nothing the Republicans would like more than for the Democrats to align themselves a self avowed “socialist”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/9 "2005-08-02T00:27:07Z")
Dena = Dean (those dyslexic fingers of mine are acting up again) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/10 "2005-08-02T00:34:57Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Dena = Dean (those dyslexic fingers of mine are acting up again) Dyslexics of the world untie! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/11 "2005-08-02T00:52:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not really a “socialist platform,” is it? Uh… Pro socialized healthcare, pro-worker, pro-government, anti-corporation… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/12 "2005-08-02T01:20:09Z")
> [@BG](#): > > Not really a “socialist platform,” is it? Hell man, did you read the title of your own op? 😛 > [@Metacom](#): > > Uh… Pro socialized healthcare, pro-worker, pro-government, anti-corporation… Exactly. I don’t know if this necessarily makes him a ‘socialist’ as the definition of that could vary. I’ll say he certainly has ‘socialist’ tendencies though. I thought that was your whole point BG…first socialist US Senator and all that. I guess my question to you and others who see a potential shift left in US politics is what indications are you following that seems to bring you to that conclusion? Are there actual indications that the US is either moving left or WANTS to move left? Is this a case of wishful thinking or are there actual trends showing this that we can examine? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/13 "2005-08-02T11:15:56Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I guess my question to you and others who see a potential shift left in US politics is what indications are you following that seems to bring you to that conclusion? Are there actual indications that the US is either moving left or WANTS to move left? Well, it seems clear from [survey results](http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=948) that on a number of important issues, the US population as a whole is in favor of more liberal policies than those of the current government. For example, majorities oppose putting further restrictions on abortion but favor funding stem-cell research, government-funded universal health insurance, increasing the minimum wage, and repealing tax cuts for the wealthy. Majorities also think that reducing the budget deficit is more important than cutting taxes, strongly favor environmental protection laws, and have a positive opinion of the UN. These are positions that dovetail very well with Sanders’s own views, so I don’t buy the claim that someone like Sanders is “too far left” for the US. It’s true that Americans tend to be very nervous about the **word** “socialist”, which is understandable given the long shadow of the Cold War. But that doesn’t stop us from favoring some policies that are rather socialist in nature. (Of course, we also want some non-socialist policies such as low taxes, too.) In any case, Sanders will officially be an Independent if elected to the Senate, just as he is in the House. And I doubt that his “associations” will be much of a political problem either for him or the Democrats, since he seems to operate not by cleaving to any particular Socialist platform as by making strategic alliances with Republicans and Democrats alike, as the OP’s linked article notes: > [@](#): > > After almost thirty-five years of close to constant campaigning […] Sanders has forged relationships with generations of Vermont voters, many of whom echo the sentiments of Warren attorney Mark Grosby, who says, “I used to be a diehard Republican. Now, I’m a diehard for Bernie.” […] > > His willingness to play with whatever political cards he is dealt has made Sanders an unexpectedly effective Congressman. In June he successfully forged a left-right coalition in the House to deal the Bush Administration a significant setback–attaching an amendment to a Justice Department appropriations bill that zeroed out funding for the use of the Patriot Act to spy on library and bookstore records. […] > > It is not only on civil liberties that Sanders is a master at forging unlikely coalitions. Right-wingers like North Carolina Republican Walter Jones are regular Sanders allies on issues as diverse as trade policy, foreign investment and, recently, setting a timetable for getting US troops out of Iraq. “I suppose some people think it’s strange that I work so well with a liberal,” Jones said on a recent afternoon, wrapping his arm around Sanders’s shoulders as the two men shared a seat on the underground train that connects the Rayburn Office Building with the Capitol. […] “You can disagree with someone 98 percent of the time, but if you can find the 2 percent where you agree and get together, that’s what matters,” Jones explained. “Bernie understands that better than some of the Democrats do.” > > Sanders says that if he makes it to the Senate he’ll continue building unlikely alliances. “In the sense that we are trying to develop left-right coalitions, we are also trying to redefine American politics,” Sanders declares. “You have the trade issue, which is very, very important to people who are worried about losing their jobs. You have healthcare issues, which are very important. You have war and peace issues, economic priority issues, which are very important when we talk about how this country is going to pay for all our domestic needs. And on those issues you can bring together coalitions that redefine the ‘normal’ paradigm that a lot of the corporate media create when they talk about liberal and conservative.” Personally, I get the sense that Sanders’s success, like that of the late liberal politician Paul Wellstone, depends on his personal integrity and his willingness to treat his constituents like grownups while addressing their crucial concerns: > [@](#): > > To a greater extent, arguably, than any other progressive politician in the country, Sanders is identified with pocketbook issues. […]To be sure, Sanders takes questions about the war in Iraq and other issues, but the breadth and depth of the discussions he gets into regarding the kitchen-table concerns of working Vermonters is remarkable. […] > > That sense that “Bernie’s on our side” on the economic issues has provided the Congressman with a following even among Vermonters not so comfortable with his opposition to the war or his ardent support of reproductive freedom and gay rights. […] > > Sanders keeps issues of economics and corporate power on the table by using his Congressional franking privileges to send out newsletters that, rather than featuring self-serving photos and pronouncements, offer easily accessible tutorials on the damage done to workers, farmers and the environment by free-trade policies, the threat to democracy posed by media consolidation and the workings of a single-payer healthcare system. Every year, Sanders holds single-issue town hall meetings in some of the smallest communities in the state, where he brings in experts on poverty, healthcare reform and other issues for discussions that can run deep into the evening. The crowds are big, often packing the halls. People get to complain. But they also get something else–an alternative view on how the economy of the country and the world might be organized to favor their interests. This long-term, intensive education process is the closest thing to the “secret” of Sanders’s success. Vermonters associate their Congressman with serious discussions about complicated issues, and they understand where he’s coming from […] A national politician who uses his position actually to help his constituents understand the issues and listen to what they have to say about them? Wow! I’d be voting for this guy too if I lived in Vermont, and I’m no Socialist either. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/14 "2005-08-02T11:25:20Z")
Y’all realize Vermont is our eleventh province, right? You wouldn’t be electing a socialist, you’d be electing a slightly leftist Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/15 "2005-08-02T16:02:32Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Y’all realize Vermont is our eleventh province, right? You wouldn’t be electing a socialist, you’d be electing a slightly leftist Canadian. I purposely didn’t add this to my analysis, but since you bring it up… Think of Vermont as the mirror image/upside down verision of NH. NH has a narrow border with Canada, and a wide border with MA. It’s larger population centers are close to the MA border. VT, on the other hand, has a very narrow border with MA (the rural, western part) and a wider border with Canada. Additionally, its population center\* (Burlington) is closer to Canada. And we’re talking Quebec here, folks, not New Brunswick. In fact, a significant portion of VT’s population is of French/French Canadian ancestry (about 25%). Anyone who thinks VT is just like any other state hasn’t spent much time there… \*does it have more than one? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/16 "2005-08-02T19:00:31Z")
> [@metacom](#): > > Uh… Pro socialized healthcare, pro-worker, pro-government, anti-corporation… None of which consitutes a socialist platform, which is my point. Starting from where America is now, it is possible to go a long, long way in the direction of economic populism without even verging on socialism. None of the Western European countries are considered “socialist states,” even though all of them have social-democratic welfare states. Nor would we be a socialist state, if we adopted similar programs. > [@xtisme](#): > > Hell man, did you read the title of your own op? 😛 My point was that Sanders would be the first self-identified socialist in the Senate, not that any specific proposal he ever has supported or ever will support would qualify as part of a “socialist” platform. Sanders has been in Congress since 1991. He is very, very aware of the practical political limits within which American leftists must work, and of what kind of proposals can and cannot be taken seriously in Congress in its present makeup. > [@xtisme](#): > > I guess my question to you and others who see a potential shift left in US politics is what indications are you following that seems to bring you to that conclusion? Are there actual indications that the US is either moving left or WANTS to move left? Is this a case of wishful thinking or are there actual trends showing this that we can examine? It could be wishful thinking. But based on the Pew Political Typology ([http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=242](http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=242)), with its analysis of who votes on what values, and who doesn’t vote and why, I believe that **economic** populism has a vast, as yet untapped pool of potential voting support, provided it can be dissociated (if only by emphasis) from cultural liberalism. I’ve run a thread on that: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=312933](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=312933) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/17 "2005-08-02T19:10:46Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > NH has a narrow border with Canada, and a wide border with MA. It’s larger population centers are close to the MA border. VT, on the other hand, has a very narrow border with MA (the rural, western part) and a wider border with Canada. Additionally, its population center\* (Burlington) is closer to Canada. Huh? What difference does it make whether the top or bottom of a state has the wider border? Most of Vermont’s **total** border is on its west and east sides, and is solidly within the US. And Burlington VT is closer to New Hampshire than to anywhere in Canada. I call silly logic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/18 "2005-08-02T19:15:23Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Y’all realize Vermont is our eleventh province, right? That would help explain their obsession with maple syrup . . . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/19 "2005-08-02T19:27:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Huh? What difference does it make whether the top or bottom of a state has the wider border? Most of Vermont’s total border is on its west and east sides, and is solidly within the US. And Burlington VT is closer to New Hampshire than to anywhere in Canada. I call silly logic. I’m surprised you have to ask. Everyone knows that things drain down…so its obvious that since Vermont has a wide border with Canada (wider than the one for NH) that the, er, Canada-ness, is draining down into Vermont at a faster rate than in NH. Er. Or something like that. No, really. Really really. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![beergeek279](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222/20 "2005-08-03T14:47:59Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Think of Vermont as the mirror image/upside down verision of NH. That’s an understatement in more ways than one, considering NH is the selected home of the [Free State Project](http://freestateproject.org/) mostly because it’s already 2 steps on the way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bernie-sanders-be-the-first-socialist-in-the-u-s-senate-will-it-matter/315222.md?page=2)