# Will "BHENGAZI-GATE" screw up Hitlery's chances in 2016? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888 "2013-05-09T13:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/201 "2013-05-11T18:26:13Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Hitlery > Hitleresque > Hitlerized > Hitleroid > Hitlerrama Hitler Hitler Bo Bitler Banana Fana Fo Fitler Fee Fi Mo Mitler Hitler! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/202 "2013-05-11T19:00:16Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > \ > What alternate universe do you inhabit? > You obviously never served in any military capacity to believe that. > > The point of it all, which you have apparently missed, or chosen to ignore, is that it wasn’t necessary for anyone to have died if State was doing it’s job. Not so. Diplomatic installations in outlying cities aren’t designed to repel mortar fire. > [@](#): > > The British long ago recognised that Benghazi was no place for diplomatic staff, and wisely left the place, but State sent the ambassador into a known hotbed of terrorists without adequate security and with no ready reaction response available. You’re missing three points: 1. Stevens wanted to be there. 2. there is a sphere of rock 25 thousand miles in circumference out there. And in such a world, you can’t have a response team ready to get _anywhere_ at a moment’s notice for any practical amount of money. And 3. The military decided that sending a team in, with the intel they had wasn’t doable. > [@](#): > > That people died is hardly surprising, and that it was only 4 is testament to the character and skill of the few operators that were there. Nice that you ended it with a random jingoistic squeak. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/203 "2013-05-11T20:36:42Z")
But why _was_ he there? Not that I’m thinking he was doing anything really treasonous, like arranging for the surreptitious transfer of weapons to hostile forces. Just a plausible reason why he should take such an obvious risk.\* I’d heard, for instance, that he wanted to help with the evacuation of personnel. Wait, what? He’s trained for this, he has mad military skills, with a special expertise in evacuating personnel under fire? Or was he so stupid that he thought a total lack of skills could be overcome by bravado? Did he report his intentions in advance? Did nobody say “Ambassador Stevens, plant your ass in your chair at the Embassy, or we nail your shoes to the floor.” Benghazi, I understand, was well known to be a surly and unruly area, especially the surrounding area. Why take the risk? Now, maybe I missed it, maybe this has all been explained. OK, I’ve been stupid before, not fatal if you’re lucky, so fill me in if you’ve got it. \*I understand that Fox News brought in Ollie North for expert commentary. I swear, I am not making this up! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/204 "2013-05-11T20:43:20Z")
Our good friends at ThinkProgress read World Nut Daily so we don’t have to… > **[Saturday nutpick-a-palooza: Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/11/1208348/-Saturday-nutpick-a-palooza-Benghazi-Benghazi-Benghazi?detail=hide)** > > Today's source material: > > \[G\]iven his connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and legendary understanding of all things Islamic, it is ... > [@](#): > > …[G]iven his connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and legendary understanding of all things Islamic, it is possible that President Obama could even have arranged for the assault on the compound without the foreknowledge of his Cabinet… Commentator Eric Rush, WND ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/205 "2013-05-11T22:18:47Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > Look, everybody: Mr. “All Government is Immoral, Natural Law FTW” wants to say something about the sovereign rights of Libya. Wars of aggression are immoral, right? How about reciting false propaganda in order to gain support for such a war? That’s what Hillary did in her best Dick Cheney impersonation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/206 "2013-05-11T22:23:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I understand that Fox News brought in Ollie North for expert commentary. I swear, I am not making this up! “Did the White House have a government official illegally selling weapons to Muslim terrorists? We invited an expert to be here with us tonight…” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/207 "2013-05-11T22:56:30Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Wars of aggression are immoral, right? How about reciting false propaganda in order to gain support for such a war? That’s what Hillary did in her best Dick Cheney impersonation. Which specifically was what again? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/208 "2013-05-12T03:02:15Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/us/politics/benghazi-e-mails-put-white-house-on-the-defensive.html?ref=todayspaper&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/us/politics/benghazi-e-mails-put-white-house-on-the-defensive.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0) The e-mails — initially disclosed in a report last month by House Republicans that was expanded on by The Weekly Standard, the conservative magazine, and on Friday in further detail by ABC News — had the White House scrambling to provide an explanation. ## Early in the afternoon, it summoned reporters for a briefing by legal and political advisers who, under the ground rules, could not be identified. In that session, the White House asserted that the talking points were not modified for political reasons and noted that they had originally been prepared at the request of Congress. They said frequent, even exhaustive revision of talking points was routine at the White House. So they lied, now they want us to believe what their explanation after they got busted. Problem is, the explanation they are giving now would have sufficed then, so it’s very likely also a lie. In any case, the State Department were the ones who removed the terrorism references. That points the finger at Hillary Clinton. And for all their good qualities, few can match the Clintons when it comes to the ease with which they lie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/209 "2013-05-12T03:37:01Z")
What was the lie, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/210 "2013-05-12T03:39:19Z")
That they didn’t alter the talking points for political reasons. Actually, the first lie was that they didn’t alter the talking points. Now they admit they did, just not for political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/211 "2013-05-12T03:42:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That they didn’t alter the talking points for political reasons. > > Actually, the first lie was that they didn’t alter the talking points. Now they admit they did, just not for political reasons. Are you trying to tell us that politicians actually create talking points for political purposes?!! My God man! Does anyone else know about this? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/212 "2013-05-12T03:50:46Z")
It’s not playing politics with the incident that got them in trouble, it was doing it while denying they were doing it. And of course the gravity of the incident. I don’t recall politics being played when Arafat ordered two of our diplomats murdered in the 70s. There are just some things you don’t screw around with. You give it to people straight. But because an election was close, the administration chose the most politically expedient line and sent an official out to lie to the public. Now I admit this isn’t a huge scandal or anything. But the public should learn the truth, and also learn just how intensely political the candidate who says he wants to get past politics is. This is a President who claims to want to set aside politics on actual political issues like guns and the budget, but plays politics with an incident that normally you don’t play politics with. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/213 "2013-05-12T04:23:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That they didn’t alter the talking points for political reasons. > > Actually, the first lie was that they didn’t alter the talking points. Now they admit they did, just not for political reasons. Okay, I wanted to be sure, because after reading the article you linked to, I had trouble believing that anyone would put that forward as a legitimate political scandal that they somehow expect people to actually care about. So, I figured there must be something about the story that I was overlooking. Turns out, I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/214 "2013-05-12T04:27:59Z")
People care plenty. No, it’s not a huge deal, but it’s a big enough deal that it deserves the attention it’s getting. And there are still unanswered questions, like what happened between the President ordering help for the besieged consulate and it not happening. Since he says he ordered help to be sent, that means someone disobeyed his orders and needs to be fired. Or he just lied about that, too. Another small insignificant detail the public has the right to know about. Now that there are no real political consequences for revealing the truth, this shouldn’t be a huge problem for the administration. He’s not up for reelection and this isn’t impeachable. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/215 "2013-05-12T04:35:42Z")
Now, back to where Clinton fits in. Her integrity isn’t really in question here, everyone already knows she is a liar and the public is comfortable with that. It’s her competence that has to be analyzed, because that’s a strong point for her. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/216 "2013-05-12T04:39:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > People care plenty. No, it’s not a huge deal, but it’s a big enough deal that it deserves the attention it’s getting. People who want to make a big deal out of nothing in order to smear someone who might just possibly run in 2016 care about this. The rest of the population? Not so much. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/217 "2013-05-12T04:43:57Z")
Smear? As I recall, questions were raised about Rudy Giuliani’s judgment over much less. At least when he was a threat. What happened in Benghazi under Clinton’s watch is much more significant than where Rudy Giuliani placed his emergency headquarters. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/218 "2013-05-12T04:44:50Z")
Here’s a good measure of how much people care: R[epublicans Hold Hearings About Hillary Clinton’s Poll Numbers](http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/05/republicans-hold-hearings-about-hillary-clintons-poll-numbers.html) > [@](#): > > Republican lawmakers asked increasingly tough questions today as they held another day of hearings to investigate, in the words of Rep. Darrell Issa (R-California), “Hillary Clinton’s suspiciously high poll numbers and what can be done to make them lower.” > > “With the help of Fox News, we have brutally attacked Hillary Clinton for months, and yet she remains more popular than ever,” Rep. Issa said. “This committee needs to know how that happened, and how we can keep it from happening in the future.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/219 "2013-05-12T04:48:16Z")
Well, we’re going to find out because now the media is intrigued. You wouldn’t like them when they’re intrigued. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/220 "2013-05-12T04:57:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You wouldn’t like them when they’re intrigued. Hell, I don’t like them even when they aren’t intrigued. US news companies have been one step above tabloid trash for a couple decades now\*. If this is supposed to be some kind of telling point, you’ll need to do better. \*though I do somewhat appreciate that they still have enough self-respect not to completely devolve to garbage reporting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=12)