# Will "BHENGAZI-GATE" screw up Hitlery's chances in 2016? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888 "2013-05-09T13:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/321 "2013-05-13T11:08:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, the President did do his job. What I was wanting to know is why it didn’t happen when he says he gave the order. Did he actually give the order, or did someone disobey it? > > Now the ad hoc explanation has been that they didn’t have enough intelligence. I’d be interested in hearing about a single case where help was denied while waiting for more intelligence to Americans under attack. And of course I’d like to know what they were waiting to find out, and if they found it out before going ahead. I’d also like to know if the people at the consulate were informed that help wasn’t coming until they got answers. You would think if they wanted answers the first people they would ask would be the people in the consulate. Those are interesting questions. Perhaps you should go find the answers before insinuating that somehow, somewhere, somebody did some unknown thing wrong in some unknown way. See? This is what happens when you charge ahead without acquiring appropriate information first. It all goes horribly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/322 "2013-05-13T11:17:20Z")
Then perhaps they should be more forthcoming. We speculate when things are intentionally hidden from us for political advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/323 "2013-05-13T11:41:00Z")
The formulation “I have questions, therefore you are hiding something” is far more characteristic of the CT crowd than of legitimate political inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/324 "2013-05-13T12:08:46Z")
I have questions, you refuse to answer them, you’ve been caught lying, and things went wrong, is not a conspiracy theory. All they had to do was handle Benghazi the way they handled Boston. There actually are some hard questions to ask about Boston, like why the FBI interviewed one of the brothers and decided there was nothing going on, but the administration has seen no need to hide anything, so there’s no problem with Congress over the issue. With Benghazi, by contrast, they went into spin mode right from the start and haven’t stopped spinning. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/325 "2013-05-13T12:17:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I have questions, you refuse to answer them, you’ve been caught lying, and things went wrong, is not a conspiracy theory. > > All they had to do was handle Benghazi the way they handled Boston. There actually are some hard questions to ask about Boston, like why the FBI interviewed one of the brothers and decided there was nothing going on, but the administration has seen no need to hide anything, so there’s no problem with Congress over the issue. With Benghazi, by contrast, they went into spin mode right from the start and haven’t stopped spinning. Gish gallop. You fail and fail and fail, and jump from bullshit point to bullshit point. Never for a moment having the integrity, honesty or courage to face the staggeringly ignorant and incorrect points you’ve been blubbering since you entered this thread. You being to afraid to honestly debate is one thing. But strutting around like you’re winning, that’s just the cat’s meow. ---
**Author:** ![Habakkuk3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@Habakkuk3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habakkuk3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/326 "2013-05-13T13:37:00Z")
“Indeed, we should ask his opinions on immigration, abortion and gay marriage, just to keep the copy/paste laughs coming.” Oh shit - someone got me right in the crotch about my other-than conservative points of view. I am pro-choice, Period. I believe gays should be able to be have same status as anybody else. BTW, I did serve in the Air Force, there were indeed gay members who did great things for us, were taken prisoner, etc., but they couldnt announce they were gay in those days. Immigration - I am pretty moderate about, I am in Texas - illegal immigrants are a fact - well, my views on these areas - I guess they mean I cannot be a “true Conservative” either Oh, to “fail utterly” to belong fully to either camp… devastating Will I talk to people as real people? Jury still out on that. Yall think I should start a new thread on “IRS-Gate” or just incorporate that here. Oh - yeah - Jay Carney, not Art Carney - was who I was tawkin about ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/327 "2013-05-13T13:49:00Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > She cited mass rape in Libya as a reason to intervene. Not implausible, but, cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/328 "2013-05-13T13:50:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, explain then. See post #296. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/329 "2013-05-13T13:51:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I have questions, you refuse to answer them, you’ve been caught lying, and things went wrong, is not a conspiracy theory. They haven’t been caught lying- they’ve been “caught” putting out information that turned out to be false (though they weren’t sure at the time). Your military “analysis” is an utter failure. You don’t understand how the chain of command works at all. You don’t understand how decisions are made in the military at all. There is no issue, no scandal, no coverup, no nothing, with regards to the military response to Benghazi. All there is is that some info was put out that turned out to be false- and that memoranda were revised. Sometimes the intel people get it wrong- and they did at first for Benghazi. Issa, Graham, and company are obviously not interested in the truth- because the truth is that there was a tragic murderous attack (which happens on Earth sometimes) and there was some confusion in the PR afterwards, and that’s it. They’re only interested in scoring political points. They’re failing at it, by the way. > [@](#): > > With Benghazi, by contrast, they went into spin mode right from the start and haven’t stopped spinning. Politicians are always in “spin mode”- even when they handle things perfectly and gracefully. The spin is working when you don’t notice it. But there’s far, far more spinning on the other side then on the administration’s side going on here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/330 "2013-05-13T14:20:10Z")
> [@Habakkuk3](#): > > Yall think I should start a new thread on “IRS-Gate” or just incorporate that here. That depends. What is this “IRS-Gate”? ---
**Author:** ![Habakkuk3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@Habakkuk3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habakkuk3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/331 "2013-05-13T14:34:07Z")
I started one anyway Uhh… for those who hadnt heard – the IRS officially apologized to some Tea Party Groups for TARGETING them for IRS scrutiny just because they had the words “Tea Party” or “Patriot” in their descriptions/requests for Tax Exempt status i thot this would be general knowledge by now On this thread, the discussion of military operational matters … I can neither affirm nor deny that anyone knows what the fuck they are tawkin about concerning this ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/332 "2013-05-13T14:46:20Z")
If the IRS scandal isn’t common knowledge here, then I question where these people are getting their news. It would explain a lot though. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/333 "2013-05-13T14:50:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If the IRS scandal isn’t common knowledge here, then I question where these people are getting their news. It would explain a lot though. You ask a lot of questions, I’ve noticed. And yet you always seem to have already jumped to a conclusion before you’ve even asked the question. I’ve heard of the IRS’s review of the various Tea Party groups’ tax status. But who knew what **Habakkuk3** might have meant by the term “IRS-Gate” without further context, especially given the factually-loose OP? This is why one asks first, THEN comes to conclusions based on the answers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/334 "2013-05-13T14:53:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They haven’t been caught lying- they’ve been “caught” putting out information that turned out to be false (though they weren’t sure at the time). They lied about where the changes to the talking points came from. They said they came from the intelligence community, but they were actually changed by the State Department. > [@](#): > > Your military “analysis” is an utter failure. You don’t understand how the chain of command works at all. You don’t understand how decisions are made in the military at all. There is no issue, no scandal, no coverup, no nothing, with regards to the military response to Benghazi. There might not be on the response, but it’s still something Congress is going to want to know. And they have the power to compel answers. > [@](#): > > All there is is that some info was put out that turned out to be false- and that memoranda were revised. Sometimes the intel people get it wrong- and they did at first for Benghazi. Issa, Graham, and company are obviously not interested in the truth- because the truth is that there was a tragic murderous attack (which happens on Earth sometimes) and there was some confusion in the PR afterwards, and that’s it. They’re only interested in scoring political points. They’re failing at it, by the way. The info turned out to be accurate. Until it was revised by the State Department. Then it was false. As for whether it’s succeeding or not: > **[Poll Shows What Americans Think About Handling Of Benghazi Aftermath](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/benghazi-poll_n_3255403)** > > Poll Shows What Americans Think About Handling Of Benghazi Aftermath Normally Presidents get high marks for handling crises unless they obviously screwed up or lied. An attack usually creates a “rally around the President” effect. Benghazi is producing the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/335 "2013-05-13T15:04:03Z")
> [@Habakkuk3](#): > > … I am in Texas … You are not _from_ Texas, right? Lie if you have to, just tell me you’re not from Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/336 "2013-05-13T15:18:37Z")
> [@Habakkuk3](#): > > “Indeed, we should ask his opinions on immigration, abortion and gay marriage, just to keep the copy/paste laughs coming.” > > Oh shit - someone got me right in the crotch about my other-than conservative points of view. > > I am pro-choice, Period. > > I believe gays should be able to be have same status as anybody else. > > BTW, I did serve in the Air Force, there were indeed gay members who did great things for us, were taken prisoner, etc., but they couldnt announce they were gay in those days. > > Immigration - I am pretty moderate about, I am in Texas - illegal immigrants are a fact - well, my views on these areas - I guess they mean I cannot be a “true Conservative” either > > Oh, to “fail utterly” to belong fully to either camp… devastating Well, when I invited your commentary on these issues, I figured you were probably going to just regurgitate right-wing stop-though talking points, as you have for Bhengazi. Colour me slightly surprised - your probable trolling is limited to just one topic. I can almost applaud your discipline. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/337 "2013-05-13T15:20:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not implausible, but, cite, please. [http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c\_id=2&objectid=10734384](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10734384) > [@](#): > > Human rights organisations have cast doubt on claims of mass rape and other abuses perpetrated by forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, which have been widely used to justify Nato’s war in Libya. … [http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h3AAyCQxdXElRhmZ8Vkf5YjIsLiw?docId=CNG.ae6d4035ac5fdab3b287d9003b822c9f.8f1](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h3AAyCQxdXElRhmZ8Vkf5YjIsLiw?docId=CNG.ae6d4035ac5fdab3b287d9003b822c9f.8f1) > [@](#): > > US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton accused the forces of Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi on Thursday of using rape and violence against women as “tools of war.” > > Clinton said the United States was “deeply concerned” by reports of widescale rape in Libya and “troubled” by reports that governments across the Middle East and North Africa were using sexual violence to punish protesters. > > “Rape, physical intimidation, sexual harassment, and even so-called ‘virginity tests’ have taken place in countries throughout the region,” she said in a statement. > > “Kadhafi’s security forces and other groups in the region are trying to divide the people by using violence against women and rape as tools of war, and the United States condemns this in the strongest possible terms.” ---
**Author:** ![Habakkuk3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@Habakkuk3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habakkuk3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/338 "2013-05-13T15:38:53Z")
and I thought about replying IN WORDS to these bitch-strikes concerning how horrible I am to “represent” older people, conservatives, “Air Force veterans”, citizens of Texas – but ya know what? I choose not to respond in words - I would rather respond with a manual, digital GESTURE aimed in the Internet General direction of this crap so visualize my finger ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/339 "2013-05-13T15:39:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They lied about where the changes to the talking points came from. They said they came from the intelligence community, but they were actually changed by the State Department. In any case the worst case scenario is that they spun facts into a positive political message on a morning talk show in the middle of the campaign. The consequence of that should be a “pants on fire” rating from politifact and a few news articles and editorials setting the record straight. You don’t need a full scale investigation every time a politician shades the truth, you’d never get anything done. Its not like any major policy decisions hinged on whether it was a demonstration or pre-planned attack. I suspect that the reason the Republicans are hitting this so hard is that in recent years the Republicans were starting to lose their edge in polls about which party does better on national security issues, and they think that this “scandal” will act as a band aid to stop the bleeding. ---
**Author:** ![Habakkuk3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@Habakkuk3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habakkuk3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/340 "2013-05-13T15:43:01Z")
Oh Bryan now my probable trolling is limited to TWO topics - cuz I have included the IRS shit as well but yeah, on most social topics, I am liberal I cannot swallow this demonizing-of-gays and “equating of abortion with murder” I jest caint swaller this current administration either [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=18)