# Will "BHENGAZI-GATE" screw up Hitlery's chances in 2016? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888 "2013-05-09T13:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/481 "2013-05-18T12:21:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s what I have heard: Leave no man behind. > > I also know there wasn’t a single case in Iraq or afghanistan where a unit was just abandoned to their fate. “Leave no man behind” is a Ranger slogan, not a standard Rule of Engagement. Also, I would remind you that there was no “unit” in Benghazi to be abandoned. Everyone at the annex was a civilian. The US military is not, cannot be, and should not be a global 911 service that zips in to the rescue every time an American citizen is in trouble anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/482 "2013-05-18T12:35:35Z")
That’s a valid argument and I suspect that was the difference maker. The Army doesn’t come riding to State’s rescue because they screwed up. But I doubt they’ll be so blunt as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/483 "2013-05-18T12:48:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a valid argument and I suspect that was the difference maker. The Army doesn’t come riding to State’s rescue because they screwed up. > > But I doubt they’ll be so blunt as you are. A valid argument, is that it isn’t policy. Have you finally accepted that? Factually you are demanding that two SoD and the general in charge of the forces in question are wrong, and you, are correct. Given your track record, and you delusional acceptance of “skewed” polls, why should anyone take your ignorant view as correct? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/484 "2013-05-18T12:54:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s some more revelations, answering some of the questions I’ve been asking: > > [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250\_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/) > > The FEST team was purposely not deployed, despite being created for these very contingencies. To their credit, the anonymous administration official regrets that they didn’t deploy it immediately. > > It sounds like they might have been misinformed about FEST’s capabilities. > > See, here’s the problem: If the adminstration had come clean early on about their mistakes, it would have meant some criticism, but the issue wouldn’t still be going on right now. But the administration would much rather have what’s happening now than even a little bit of criticism in the run up to an election. So they lied. > > Contrast this to the Boston response. It was revealed that the FBI interviewed Tamerlan, but didn’t believe he was dangerous. It came out right away, and so it wasn’t a huge deal. Imagine if the administration had told the FBI not to reveal that information, but it had to come out as a result of investigations by Congress or sniffing around by the media, weeks later. That would have looked bad, no? The military decisions it has been documented were made by the military. There is no there, there on any of that. **I.** But here is the real problem with your, _"See, here’s the problem: If the administration had come clean early on about their mistakes, it would have meant some criticism, but the issue wouldn’t still be going on right now. But the administration would much rather have what’s happening now than even a little bit of criticism in the run up to an election. So they lied._: (A) It is absurd for you to expect anyone to believe that there would only have been criticism 'but the issue would not be going on right now" because: (a) The issue going on right now is not about mistakes in military judgment made by the military and defended by the military officers and leadership that made instant judgments in the heat of a deadly crisis. (b) The explosive issue this past week was tied to Jon Karl’s flawed supposedly brand new revelation that the “talking point emails” were ‘SCRUBBED’ by the White House and the State Department. (c) The fact that the CIA was under attack under diplomatic cover required immediate caution in what was said during and after the attack - complicating all matters. A fact that is complicating this tragedy to the present moment. (d) Do you recall Romney’s farce and disgrace of politicizing the deaths of Americans by calling Obama practically a traitor for sympathizing with the attackers? He did that most reprehensible political pre-dance on graves of Americans serving abroad the night of the attack and prior to the smoke even clearing on the burned out building. - - - That is proof that Republicans were going to used the deaths of Americans in any way they could without doing what most reasonable Americans understand that it would take a long time to figure out what went wrong and all that. The immediate matter is some goddamned foreigners most likely killed our ambassador who was a great friend of 99.99999 percent of the citizens of Benghazi. (e) The trumped up scandal trumpeting was not focused on ‘mistakes made’ because Republicans knew that there was not enough time to make hay out of that issue and get some traction prior to the election in less than two months. So the political advantage from day one, as Romney shows us (see (d)) was to politically exploit the already existent right wing theme that Obama was the “APOLOGIZER IN CHIEF” and a “MUSLIM SYMPATHIZER” and a “AMERICA HATER” of some sort. So the process started with the “BLAME THE MOVIE” assault based mostly upon Susan Rice’s damn near perfectly exact recital of the talking points that were we now know written by the CIA that at first thought there was a crowd outside the consulate that had a spontaneous element about it and was taken over by Islamic Extremists and all of that WE KNOW NOW \*\*WAS NOT EDITED \*\*by the White House or the State Department by Victoria Nuland on September 14th through the 15th. - - - Republicans are still en mass lying about that specific SCANDAL and most likely never ever in a million years stop lying about it. II. And here is the real problem with your, \*“Contrast this to the Boston response … It was revealed that the FBI interviewed Tamerlan, but didn’t believe he was dangerous” \*: (A) Because that is not one bit the sort of information that would have taken a thorough investigation to conclude. It was a fact of public record and is not at all the same thing as an investigation into who made a mistake. (B) You have really come up with a non-fact based argument here in the first place: > [@](#): > > Whoops! Obama’s FBI Let Boston Bomber Go Two Years Ago > [Whoops! Obama's FBI Let Boston Bomber Go Two Years Ago](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3009963/posts) > Apr 19, 2013 … From CBS’Bob Orr: FBIinterviewed Tamarlan Tsarnaev 2 yrs ago abt extremist ties, found nothing & closed file. More on CBS Evening News … > > [Whoops! Obama's FBI Let Boston Bomber Go Two Years Ago](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3009963/posts) Just for laughs here is one comment from the Free Republican link: > [@](#): > > Not surprising. The Kenyan lives in an alternate universe where terrorism and the fight against it do not exist. and > [@](#): > > Well, lookee here. > > Seems Obama’s got some ‘splainin’ to do. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/485 "2013-05-18T13:19:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > How can I cite a negative? Show me where a unit was left behind. Such an event would be a mass casualty event, so it shouldn’t be hard to find. But I’ll save you the trouble: you won’t find any. I followed the wars extremely closely and I can recite off the top of my head all the incidents where more than 5 soldiers died. None of them involved a unit getting obliterated because they wanted for backup. The only example that comes close isn’t even us, it was some Scots trapped and surrounded during the Sadr uprising. They mostly got out alive despite no ammunition because they’re Scots. In other words, they ran out of ammo and broke out with a crazy bayonet charge. > > The Sadr uprising is a great example of a surprise attack that caught everyone unawares. Yet our forces rushed around doing what they had to do, rather than retreating to their bases and hanging our allies out to dry. Of course, we had a different President then… Are you comparing the ‘battles’ in Iraq to the attack on our consulate and CIA Annex in Benghazi…? Where there were no " highly motivated and disciplined U.S. Army and Marine Corps troops" and were not supposed to be there. The troops in Iraq should not have been there either… Here’s a brief description from Amazon and the book: Battle for the City of the Dead: In the Shadow of the Golden Dome, Najaf, August 2004 > [@](#): > > In the spring and summer of 2004, Iraq was coming apart at the seams. Sectarian violence pitted Shiite against Sunni. American proconsul L. Paul Bremer had disbanded the Iraqi Army, placing disgruntled young men on the street without jobs or the prospect of getting one. Their anger developed into a full-blown insurgency fed by a relentless campaign by the clergy for jihad against the “occupation force.” In August, a Shiite cleric named Muqtada Al-Sadr called upon his thousands of armed followers, the Mahdi Militia, to resist the occupation. Fighting broke out in several locations, including the holy city of Najaf, the site of the largest Moslem cemetery in the world, and the Imam Ali Mosque. The U.S. forces fought in 120-degree heat through a tangle of crypts, mausoleums, and crumbling graves. The fight was brutal, pitting religious zealots against the highly motivated and disciplined U.S. Army and Marine Corps troops. It makes for a riveting account of Americans in battle. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/486 "2013-05-18T16:26:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/us/politics/benghazi-e-mails-put-white-house-on-the-defensive.html?ref=todayspaper&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/us/politics/benghazi-e-mails-put-white-house-on-the-defensive.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0) > > The e-mails — initially disclosed in a report last month by House Republicans that was expanded on by The Weekly Standard, the conservative magazine, and on Friday in further detail by ABC News — had the White House scrambling to provide an explanation. > > ## Early in the afternoon, it summoned reporters for a briefing by legal and political advisers who, under the ground rules, could not be identified. In that session, the White House asserted that the talking points were not modified for political reasons and noted that they had originally been prepared at the request of Congress. They said frequent, even exhaustive revision of talking points was routine at the White House. > > So they lied, now they want us to believe what their explanation after they got busted. Problem is, the explanation they are giving now would have sufficed then, so it’s very likely also a lie. > > In any case, the State Department were the ones who removed the terrorism references. That points the finger at Hillary Clinton. And for all their good qualities, few can match the Clintons when it comes to the ease with which they lie. Who is busted now? That would be adaher, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/487 "2013-05-18T16:30:37Z")
Now we’re back to the terrorism references, which again, were removed by the State Department. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/488 "2013-05-18T16:43:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now we’re back to the terrorism references, which again, were removed by the State Department. Not so. From the link below: “The CIA itself and then the ODNI [Office of the Director of National Intelligence] all made clear that every one of the changes with regard to the involvement the naming of al Qaeda and Ansar al Sharia were made by the CIA,” > [@](#): > > A congressional source who attended one of the two meetings had a similar recollection. > > “I don’t recall a single member asking a single question or making a single statement suggesting the White House played anything other than an appropriate role in resolving the disagreement over the talking points,” the source said. > > On top of that, the source added that the CIA had acknowledged on other occasions making all of the major changes to the talking points itself, irrespective of the State Department’s concerns. > > “The CIA itself and then the ODNI [Office of the Director of National Intelligence] who walked us through the emails all made clear that every one of the changes with regard to the involvement the naming of al Qaeda and Ansar al Sharia were made by the CIA,” the source added. “Petraeus and Morell were saying that last year…. They were extremely forthcoming about that from the beginning. That piece of knowledge was repeated so many times in so many different briefings it would be impossible for me to believe that anybody left with the impression that anyone other than the CIA made the changes.” > > [http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/05/benghazi-emails-white-house-briefing-intelligence.php?ref=fpa](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/05/benghazi-emails-white-house-briefing-intelligence.php?ref=fpa) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/489 "2013-05-18T16:49:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nevertheless, the fact that some military people say it doesn’t make it true. Especially since I’ve never heard it before, and neither have you. > > Here’s what I have heard: Leave no man behind. Am I really the first person to point out that we didn’t leave anyone behind at Benghazi? All the survivors came home safe. All the bodies were recovered. No one got left behind. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/490 "2013-05-18T17:05:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s some more revelations, answering some of the questions I’ve been asking: > > [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250\_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/) > > The FEST team was purposely not deployed, despite being created for these very contingencies. To their credit, the anonymous administration official regrets that they didn’t deploy it immediately. > > It sounds like they might have been misinformed about FEST’s capabilities. > > See, here’s the problem: If the adminstration had come clean early on about their mistakes, it would have meant some criticism, but the issue wouldn’t still be going on right now. But the administration would much rather have what’s happening now than even a little bit of criticism in the run up to an election. So they lied. > > Contrast this to the Boston response. It was revealed that the FBI interviewed Tamerlan, but didn’t believe he was dangerous. It came out right away, and so it wasn’t a huge deal. Imagine if the administration had told the FBI not to reveal that information, but it had to come out as a result of investigations by Congress or sniffing around by the media, weeks later. That would have looked bad, no? Nobody gives a fuck about the questions you’re asking. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/491 "2013-05-18T17:14:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now we’re back to the terrorism references, which again, were removed by the State Department. Has anyone seen the goalposts lately? Every time I think I’ve spotted them they seem to move. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/492 "2013-05-18T17:45:07Z")
The goalposts were left behind in Benghazi by **adaher** ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/493 "2013-05-18T17:51:38Z")
That was five minutes ago. They are now in San Bernadino, CA. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/494 "2013-05-18T18:10:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That was five minutes ago. They are now in San Bernadino, CA. Is that where this adaher dipshit lives? If not, it’s where he ought to live. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/495 "2013-05-18T18:21:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now we’re back to the terrorism references, which again, were removed by the State Department. Since that is not true either, will you ever respond to Post #484 or are you done on this topic? ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/496 "2013-05-18T18:39:35Z")
Let him finish sucking himself off first. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/497 "2013-05-18T18:51:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If it was that cut and dried, Congress wouldn’t be demanding answers. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Congress is ginning up this for political gain. Darryl Issa is a hardcore partisan. You can’t honestly believe what you just said. He can if he’s stupid. Otherwise, yeah, just not honest, like you said. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/498 "2013-05-18T18:59:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s some more revelations, answering some of the questions I’ve been asking: > > [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250\_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/) > > The FEST team was purposely not deployed, despite being created for these very contingencies. To their credit, the anonymous administration official regrets that they didn’t deploy it immediately. > > It sounds like they might have been misinformed about FEST’s capabilities. So, you wanted to send in a US-based team of civilians to negotiate with terrorists? A team that would have arrived many hours after the event had ended? ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/499 "2013-05-18T19:00:36Z")
A modus ponens argument: If adaher is stupid, he will believe stupid shit Adaher is stupid Therefore, he believes stupid shit. Valid, since it’s a modus ponens argument; sound, sine the premises are true. ---
**Author:** ![Habakkuk3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@Habakkuk3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habakkuk3)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/500 "2013-05-18T21:56:16Z")
admitted IDIOTS [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=26)