# Will "BHENGAZI-GATE" screw up Hitlery's chances in 2016? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888 "2013-05-09T13:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/561 "2013-05-21T22:46:39Z")
> [@elbowj](#): > > The latest is the where was Obama cry. Disregard that this has never been asked of a President. It was testified about in Congress by Panetta, but yesterday a Republican congressmen sent a series of already answered questions as if the White House is stonewalling. Here’s the rub, they know the answers, but they also know their base has the intellectual curiosity of a slug and will not only buy whatever new line they’re selling, but will also inadvertently participate in a misinformation campaign by repeating their crap all over. The latest “theory” is that Stevens was in Benghazi to buy back some Stinger missiles that Hillary had given to al-Qaeda—over CIA objections, mind you—in order to overthrow Gaddafi. :eek: [http://nation.foxnews.com/benghazi/2013/05/21/new-benghazi-whistle-blowers-making-devastating-new-claim#ixzz2TvsU9JPS](http://nation.foxnews.com/benghazi/2013/05/21/new-benghazi-whistle-blowers-making-devastating-new-claim#ixzz2TvsU9JPS) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/562 "2013-05-22T02:45:26Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Unfortunately for you, there was never a spontaneous demonstration sparked by a VDO, so for Rice to state that it was so is not the truth. > If the CIA agreed with the final version of the talking points, why did Petraeous not sign off on them? > > And, you still haven’t said why Obama told the UN it was the VDO, when he knew it was not. Do you think the spontaneous demonstration, the crowd, and the protests mentioned as occurring at the Consulate in Benghazi prior to an attack by ‘extremists’ in the Talking Points was not the consensus of the CIA and Intelligence Community? Is that what you believe? Tell me that is what you believe… so I can show that you are wrong. No one outside the CIA put those words in there in the original draft that was completed by the CIA at 4:42 PM on September 14, 2012 according to the emails. If you have other facts … let see them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/563 "2013-05-22T03:10:29Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > And, you still haven’t said why Obama told the UN it was the VDO, when he knew it was not. I have posted the relevant parts of Obama’s Speech to the UN. The attack on our embassy in Cairo and others was sparked by the video. So your assignment is to find in Obama’s speech where he blamed the video for the attack on the CONSULATE at Benghazi. > [@](#): > > 20120925x0002 Obama’s Speech to the United Nations General Assembly — Text September 25, 2012 > Shortened… to include only references to Benghazi Attacks: > … > The attacks on the civilians in Benghazi were attacks on America. We are grateful for the assistance we received from the Libyan government and from the Libyan people. There should be no doubt that we will be relentless in tracking down the killers and bringing them to justice. And I also appreciate that in recent days, the leaders of other countries in the region – including Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen – have taken steps to secure our diplomatic facilities, and called for calm. And so have religious authorities around the globe. > > But understand, the attacks of the last two weeks are not simply an assault on America. They are also an assault on the very ideals upon which the United Nations was founded – the notion that people can resolve their differences peacefully; that diplomacy can take the place of war; that in an interdependent world, all of us have a stake in working towards greater opportunity and security for our citizens. > > If we are serious about upholding these ideals, it will not be enough to put more guards in front of an embassy, or to put out statements of regret and wait for the outrage to pass. If we are serious about these ideals, we must speak honestly about the deeper causes of the crisis – because we face a choice between the forces that would drive us apart and the hopes that we hold in common. > Today, we must reaffirm that our future will be determined by people like Chris Stevens – and not by his killers. Today, we must declare that this violence and intolerance has no place among our United Nations. > > … > And yet the turmoil of recent weeks reminds us that the path to democracy does not end with the casting of a ballot. Nelson Mandela once said: “To be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.” > > True democracy demands that citizens cannot be thrown in jail because of what they believe, and that businesses can be opened without paying a bribe. It depends on the freedom of citizens to speak their minds and assemble without fear, and on the rule of law and due process that guarantees the rights of all people. > > In other words, true democracy – real freedom – is hard work. Those in power have to resist the temptation to crack down on dissidents. In hard economic times, countries must be tempted – may be tempted to rally the people around perceived enemies, at home and abroad, rather than focusing on the painstaking work of reform. > Moreover, there will always be those that reject human progress – dictators who cling to power, corrupt interests that depend on the status quo, and extremists who fan the flames of hate and division. From Northern Ireland to South Asia, from Africa to the Americas, from the Balkans to the Pacific Rim, we’ve witnessed convulsions that can accompany transitions to a new political order. > At time, the conflicts arise along the fault lines of race or tribe. And often they arise from the difficulties of reconciling tradition and faith with the diversity and interdependence of the modern world. In every country, there are those who find different religious beliefs threatening; in every culture, those who love freedom for themselves must ask themselves how much they’re willing to tolerate freedom for others. > > That is what we saw play out in the last two weeks, as a crude and disgusting video sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world. Now, I have made it clear that the United States government had nothing to do with this video, and I believe its message must be rejected by all who respect our common humanity. > It is an insult not only to Muslims, but to America as well – for as the city outside these walls makes clear, we are a country that has welcomed people of every race and every faith. We are home to Muslims who worship across our country. We not only respect the freedom of religion, we have laws that protect individuals from being harmed because of how they look or what they believe. We understand why people take offense to this video because millions of our citizens are among them > I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. And the answer is enshrined in our laws: Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech. > > Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense. Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs. As President of our country and Commander-in-Chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day --(laughter) – and I will always defend their right to do so. > > Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views, even views that we profoundly disagree with. We do not do so because we support hateful speech, but because our founders understood that without such protections, the capacity of each individual to express their own views and practice their own faith may be threatened. We do so because in a diverse society, efforts to restrict speech can quickly become a tool to silence critics and oppress minorities. > > We do so because given the power of faith in our lives, and the passion that religious differences can inflame, the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression; it is more speech – the voices of tolerance that rally against bigotry and blasphemy, and lift up the values of understanding and mutual respect. > > Now, I know that not all countries in this body share this particular understanding of the protection of free speech. We recognize that. But in 2012, at a time when anyone with a cell phone can spread offensive views around the world with the click of a button, the notion that we can control the flow of information is obsolete. The question, then, is how do we respond? > And on this we must agree: There is no speech that justifies mindless violence. There are no words that excuse the killing of innocents. There’s no video that justifies an attack on an embassy. There’s no slander that provides an excuse for people to burn a restaurant in Lebanon, or destroy a school in Tunis, or cause death and destruction in Pakistan. > > In this modern world with modern technologies, for us to respond in that way to hateful speech empowers any individual who engages in such speech to create chaos around the world. We empower the worst of us if that’s how we respond. > More broadly, the events of the last two weeks also speak to the need for all of us to honestly address the tensions between the West and the Arab world that is moving towards democracy. > > Now, let me be clear: Just as we cannot solve every problem in the world, the United States has not and will not seek to dictate the outcome of democratic transitions abroad. We do not expect other nations to agree with us on every issue, nor do we assume that the violence of the past weeks or the hateful speech by some individuals represent the views of the overwhelming majority of Muslims, any more than the views of the people who produced this video represents those of Americans. However, I do believe that it is the obligation of all leaders in all countries to speak out forcefully against violence and extremism. > It is time to marginalize those who – even when not directly resorting to violence – use hatred of America, or the West, or Israel, as the central organizing principle of politics. For that only gives cover, and sometimes makes an excuse, for those who do resort to violence. > > That brand of politics – one that pits East against West, and South against North, Muslims against Christians and Hindu and Jews – can’t deliver on the promise of freedom. To the youth, it offers only false hope. Burning an American flag does nothing to provide a child an education. Smashing apart a restaurant does not fill an empty stomach. Attacking an embassy won’t create a single job. That brand of politics only makes it harder to achieve what we must do together: educating our children, and creating the opportunities that they deserve; protecting human rights, and extending democracy’s promise. > > Understand America will never retreat from the world. We will bring justice to those who harm our citizens and our friends, and we will stand with our allies. We are willing to partner with countries around the world to deepen ties of trade and investment, and science and technology, energy and development – all efforts that can spark economic growth for all our people and stabilize democratic change. > But such efforts depend on a spirit of mutual interest and mutual respect. No government or company, no school or NGO will be confident working in a country where its people are endangered. For partnerships to be effective our citizens must be secure and our efforts must be welcomed. > > A politics based only on anger – one based on dividing the world between “us” and “them”-- not only sets back international cooperation, it ultimately undermines those who tolerate it. All of us have an interest in standing up to these forces. > > Let us remember that Muslims have suffered the most at the hands of extremism. On the same day our civilians were killed in Benghazi, a Turkish police officer was murdered in Istanbul only days before his wedding; more than 10 Yemenis were killed in a car bomb in Sana’a; several Afghan children were mourned by their parents just days after they were killed by a suicide bomber in Kabul. > The impulse towards intolerance and violence may initially be focused on the West, but over time it cannot be contained. The same impulses toward extremism are used to justify war between Sunni and Shia, between tribes and clans. It leads not to strength and prosperity but to chaos. In less than two years, we have seen largely peaceful protests bring more change to Muslim-majority countries than a decade of violence. And extremists understand this. Because they have nothing to offer to improve the lives of people, violence is their only way to stay relevant. They don’t build; they only destroy. > > It is time to leave the call of violence and the politics of division behind. On so many issues, we face a choice between the promise of the future, or the prisons of the past. And we cannot afford to get it wrong. We must seize this moment. And America stands ready to work with all who are willing to embrace a better future. > The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt – it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted, “Muslims, Christians, we are one.” The future must not belong to those who bully women – it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons. > The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country’s resources – it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs, the workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the women and men that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support. > > The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied. > > Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims and Shiite pilgrims. It’s time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.” Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, that’s the vision we will support. > > Among Israelis and Palestinians, the future must not belong to those who turn their backs on a prospect of peace. Let us leave behind those who thrive on conflict, those who reject the right of Israel to exist. The road is hard, but the destination is clear – a secure, Jewish state of Israel and an independent, prosperous Palestine. Understanding that such a peace must come through a just agreement between the parties, America will walk alongside all who are prepared to make that journey > … > The United States of America will always stand up for these aspirations, for our own people and for people all across the world. That was our founding purpose. That is what our history shows. That is what Chris Stevens worked for throughout his life. > > And I promise you this: Long after the killers are brought to justice, Chris Stevens’s legacy will live on in the lives that he touched – in the tens of thousands who marched against violence through the streets of Benghazi; in the Libyans who changed their Facebook photo to one of Chris; in the signs that read, simply,“Chris Stevens was a friend to all Libyans.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/564 "2013-05-22T10:32:50Z")
You know, **NotfooledbyW** , as much as I appreciate a fact-based smackdown of stupidheads, this wall-of-text thing really has to stop. Quote the money shot and link to the rest, if only for the sake of my scrolling finger. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/565 "2013-05-22T11:28:17Z")
The real scandal in that speech was his blatant attack on the 1st amendment. Slander of Christianity and Jesus is just a normal part of our pop culture. and it’s a GOOD thing. Slander of Mohammed and Islam should also be just as mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/566 "2013-05-22T11:41:55Z")
Mind if we call you “Stretch”? You’re full of shit, Stretch. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/567 "2013-05-22T11:48:50Z")
“The future will not belong to those who slander the prophet Mohammed?” Pander much? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/568 "2013-05-22T11:58:49Z")
If only our troops had travelled to Benghazi on **adaher** ’s goalposts - nothing else on Earth moves faster and farther. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/569 "2013-05-22T12:01:20Z")
Hey, I’m just glad to live in a society where liberals are suddenly deeply respectful of people of faith. I expect that SDMB will soon start enforcing anti-blasphemy rules. SDMB wants to inherit the future, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/570 "2013-05-22T12:12:12Z")
Blatant selective interpretation of facts? Check. Ridiculous liberal strawman? Check. Smug implication of a “gotcha” despite no basis in reality? Check. Man, I’ve got to make up some bingo cards. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/571 "2013-05-22T12:19:08Z")
Hey, I’m just getting with the spirit and tone that you’ve helped create here. It is the Pit after all, we can alternate serious discussion with potshots at each other. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/572 "2013-05-22T13:06:33Z")
Mostly we seem to be alternating you posting what the latest “real” scandal is and the rest of us providing the internet messageboard equivalent of the “sad trombone” riff as the newest scandal turns out to either be based entirely on falsehoods or on a gross exaggeration of the significance of inconsequential minutiae. But do keep shovelling horseshit. I’m sure there’s a pony in that barn somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/573 "2013-05-22T13:12:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The real scandal in that speech was his blatant attack on the 1st amendment. Wait, I thought the real scandal was the changing of the talking points. Or is it that we didn’t go in hot the second we heard Americans were under fire? Or is it that Obama called it an act of terror instead of a terrorist attack? This “throw everything you can think of at the wall and hope something sticks” approach to politics is the reason nobody takes the Republican party seriously anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/574 "2013-05-22T14:12:48Z")
The real scandal is that the polls are skewed. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/575 "2013-05-22T14:13:20Z")
In the Republicans’ eyes the real scandal is that they can’t identify a real scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/576 "2013-05-22T14:14:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The real scandal Do shut up you goalpost moving toad-licker. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/577 "2013-05-22T14:15:56Z")
If you believe Democrats, there has never been a real scandal that a Democratic President has been responsible for. Unless Obama cuts Social Security. Then everything Republicans ever said about him was right. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/578 "2013-05-22T14:26:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you believe Democrats, there has never been a real scandal that a Democratic President has been responsible for. > > Unless Obama cuts Social Security. Then everything Republicans ever said about him was right. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Blatant selective interpretation of facts? Check. > Ridiculous liberal strawman? Check. > Smug implication of a “gotcha” despite no basis in reality? Check. Bingo! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/579 "2013-05-22T16:41:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you believe Democrats, there has never been a real scandal that a Democratic President has been responsible for. > > Unless Obama cuts Social Security. Then everything Republicans ever said about him was right. If you believe Republicans, anything and everything a Democratic president does is a scandal. “He bowed to a foreign dignitary!” “He had the Marines hold an umbrella for him!” “He orders his burgers with Dijon mustard!” Is it any surprise that our response when your lot cook up a new scandal is to roll our eyes and move on? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888/580 "2013-05-22T17:31:44Z")
More fun and games: [Darrell Issa was informed several times throughout the past year about the IRS investigation into conservative groups](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/21/irs-inspector-general-darrell-issa_n_3315370.html). Honestly, will any of these scandals not bite the Republicans on the ass at some point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bhengazi-gate-screw-up-hitlerys-chances-in-2016/657888.md?page=30)