# Will bigots cost Obama the presidency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 21, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503 "2008-09-21T00:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/41 "2008-09-21T15:32:50Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > So if I say I’m voting for McCain because I think there should be more old white men in Washington, that would be OK with you? You don’t need my ok. I don’t give a rat’s ass how or why you vote. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/42 "2008-09-21T15:34:07Z")
> [@xanthous](#): > > Obama got [heckled](http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j2B0SbafWmP8MdULXrPlL2tKrY9Q) at a rally in Florida the other day by a group of african americans who claim he is selling out the black community. I don’t know how widespread is the sentiment, nor do I know exactly what is its basis, but there is also that kind of stuff going on… Since he’s got 95% of the black vote, I don’t think it’s very widespread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/43 "2008-09-21T15:38:27Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > elaborate please You really don’t ubderstand this? Do you not see a difference between trying to get a minority into an all white country club and trying to keep one out? ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/44 "2008-09-21T15:53:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You really don’t ubderstand this? > > Do you not see a difference between trying to get a minority into an all white country club and trying to keep one out? There are plenty of all-black “country clubs”, just not at the national level. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/45 "2008-09-21T16:14:22Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > There are plenty of all-black “country clubs”, just not at the national level. The White House is an all white country club. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/46 "2008-09-21T16:31:04Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > There are plenty of all-black “country clubs”, just not at the national level. Cite? All the black country clubs I’m familiar with also have non black members. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/47 "2008-09-21T16:39:57Z")
This thread brings to mind this older one. [Blacks have good nonracist reasons to prefer pols of their own race; whites don't - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=468929). ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/48 "2008-09-21T16:54:10Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I sorta missed the point of the poll, I guess. > > **Whites–and everyone else–would be quite accurate in assessing that blacks as a group are much more violent than whites in the US**. I’ve never seen any crime statistics to the contrary and the difference is substantial. In that case any “ **white** ” person who would say that can be put in the corner for their distinct ignorance and idiocy. If you or anyone uses just crime statistics as your reason for making that statement then you should be sent to the corner as well.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/49 "2008-09-21T17:19:39Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > How many people are going to vote for Obama just because he is black? Anyone can be a bigot. Don’t know, don’t care, just so long as it’s enough to make the man President of the USA. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/50 "2008-09-21T17:25:21Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > And the poll further reminds us that blacks as a group are almost overwhelmingly in favor of Obama. So apparently blacks as a group shouldn’t be characterized as bigots–they are just voting positions–but whites who hold to generalizations about blacks or who want to vote their clan can be classified as bigots. [Well, yeah.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=468929) > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I’m not sure I agree with the assumption that all individuals who hold negative (if accurate) stereotypes about a group’s average behaviour would be less inclined to vote for an individual who clearly is not stereotypical. Still and all, it often (not always) seems to work out that way, as any American should know. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/51 "2008-09-21T17:47:32Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > No. > > Any racists who’re using that as a reason to vote for McCain (or not vote at all) have already been accounted for in the current polling. Those who’re undecided aren’t suddenly going to become racists in the next few weeks. No [Bradley Effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect)? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/52 "2008-09-21T18:01:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is a fraudulent comparison. There’s a difference between trying to get somebody into a tent and trying to keep them out. Nonsense. Voting for someone because they’re black is racism. You may indeed argue that you have noble motives for your racism (inclusion, getting people into tents, etc) but that doesn’t make it any the less racist. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/53 "2008-09-21T18:03:23Z")
No, voting to integrate and voting to segregate are motivational opposites. This dog is never going to hunt. White people are not being oppressed or excluded because black people are voting for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/54 "2008-09-21T18:05:51Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Nonsense. Voting for someone because they’re black is racism. You may indeed argue that you have noble motives for your racism (inclusion, getting people into tents, etc) but that doesn’t make it any the less racist. Blacks share more than color. They have been fighting for equality in laws and economic opportunity. They have fought exploitation by lenders. Voting for a black when you are one, is a political move more than one of racism. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/55 "2008-09-21T18:05:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, voting to integrate and voting to segregate are motivational opposites. This dog is never going to hunt. White people are not being oppressed or excluded because black people are voting for Obama. Once again, you’re arguing justification for racism. Nonetheless the act itself is still racist. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/56 "2008-09-21T18:07:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No [Bradley Effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect)? It [didn’t exist](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/persistent-myth-of-bradley-effect.html) for him in the primaries. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/57 "2008-09-21T18:11:21Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Once again, you’re arguing justification for racism. Nonetheless the act itself is still racist. You’re being slippery with your definitions here. You’re using “racist” to mean “race is a factor”, but then attaching the opprobrium of “discriminating against someone based on their race”. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/58 "2008-09-21T18:40:56Z")
I grew up in Philadelphia, born 47 short years ago, in an environment I have heard referred to as “Philadelphia rowhouse Catholicism.” It was a hard-working neighborhood–“salt of the earth” people, I thought of 'em. I still do. I knew lots of people who had two pictures hanging in their living rooms: the Pope and JFK. They loved Kennedy. _Loved_ him. He was handsome and smart and full of promise and vision. Oh, and he was Catholic. I strongly suspect that my neighborhood voted for Kennedy in the same proportions that I’m reading blacks now support Obama. Hell, maybe it was even higher. And they for sure believed he was a great man, and the best one for the job. But I’ll admit it, I’m not sure they would have supported him at quite the same percentage, with quite the same fervor, if he wasn’t Catholic. He was a New Englander, privileged, an American blueblood, all things we were not. But he felt like one of ours–he certainly made us feel that way–and the thrill that finally, finally, one of our guys could make it to the White House was heady stuff. My mother stood in the pouring rain with several of her girlfriends, hoping for a glimpse of Jack as his car drove by, and she still describes it with goosebumps. I don’t think there was anything wrong with it, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with blacks supporting Obama, acknowledging that a significant aspect of that support is because he’s black. He’s a competent, articulate, charismatic candidate, and he’s one of them, just as Jack was simultaneously one of us and more than that. I bet it’s a thrill. And that is _not_ just the flip side of the coin whose opposite is the racist who won’t vote for Obama because he’s black, or the bigot who could never vote for a “papist” like Kennedy. Not for me, anyway. I’m with Diogenes on this one. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/59 "2008-09-21T19:42:40Z")
> [@hansel](#): > > You’re being slippery with your definitions here. You’re using “racist” to mean “race is a factor”, but then attaching the opprobrium of “discriminating against someone based on their race”. But voting for Obama simply because he’s black _is_ discriminating against someone based on their race, that someone being McCain. And I don’t know where you get ‘the watered-down definition race is a factor’ from, certainly not from my posts. I’m arguing against voting for or against someone based \*purely \*on race. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503/60 "2008-09-21T19:55:35Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > How about: > > 1. Given a choice between a white and a non-white, I will always vote for the white. > > 2. Given a choice between a black and a non-black, I will always vote for the black. > > From what I’ve seen, blacks can be just as racist and exclusionary, as whites or any other group. Given the opportunity, anyone can be a jerk. It’s hard to imagine that there are those who only vote for black presidents, given that there hasn’t ever been a black candidate that got through the primaries. No one can yet tell the difference between “I want all presidents to be black” and “I want at least one president to be black”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-bigots-cost-obama-the-presidency/464503.md?page=4)