# Will Centrist Politics Ever Return?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [November 20, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056 "2015-11-20T06:31:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/41 "2015-11-23T01:30:21Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> ever heard of a Scoop Jackson Democrat?
I’ve been following politics since about 1968, so, yes, I have. I do not, in fact, recall that [Scoop Jackson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_M._Jackson) (D-Washington, House 1941-53, Senate 1953-83, link provided for those who haven’t heard) attacked Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, or Carter in the terms you have used to attack Obama.
---
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/42 "2015-11-23T01:59:14Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> ever heard of a Scoop Jackson Democrat? Or Bill Maher (tho not a registered one, he votes it since 2004 and has supported them for Prez since), who on religion (and he’s not a hypocrite about Islam), I agree with.
>
> It makes no sense why liberals, who rightfully don’t like religion so much, protect a religion in which its host societies punish gay rights, women’s rights, religious minority rights orders of magnitudes worse than in non-Muslim societies. Some ultra-Muslim societies regulate what kind of music is legal. Do liberals really want that religion to spread in America so politicians can pander to them? Gays are thrown off buildings in many of those societies, others imprisoned (and were long before “western colonialism.” Abortion can get you serious jail time in some of those places.
This is conspiracy-theory claptrap. Islam isn’t protected by liberals any more than any other religion. Liberals frequently criticize individual Muslims, and laws and practices that restrict human rights in some Muslim countries. Honor killings are entirely unacceptable, as is mistreatment of women, execution of heretics and gays, and other forms of oppression. Pretty much all liberals agree with this. They just often don’t use the same sort of inflammatory rhetoric that others use.
> [@](#):
>
> Also, not every liberal thinks the world is just gonna get together and smile on their brother and love everyone right now. There’s always gonna be country’s trying to be superpowers, so why not us? I don’t think America is God’s country; I just think its the best damn choice on balance.
I don’t know any liberals who believe this sort of right-wing fantasy straw-man stuff.
> [@](#):
>
> What I wanna see return is how Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan worked with the other party to get legislation, and find common ground.
In terms of the Republicans in Congress today, this isn’t possible. There’s no possibility of compromise with the likes of Louie Gohmert and Steve King. The Republican party was a very, very different party in the 80s and 90s.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/43 "2015-11-23T03:27:01Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#):
>
> Evangelicals tend to be Religious Conformists (pre-modern) and not be fans of Scientific Rationalism (modern).
And the post-modern thing is?
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### Author:  [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/44 "2015-11-23T03:28:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> And the post-modern thing is?
In this context I would probably say pluralistic relativism.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/45 "2015-11-23T05:06:32Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> ever heard of a Scoop Jackson Democrat? Or Bill Maher (tho not a registered one, he votes it since 2004 and has supported them for Prez since), who on religion (and he’s not a hypocrite about Islam), I agree with.
Let me just reiterate here that I find it absolutely hilarious although rather offensive that you should mention in the same breath the great Cold War labour liberal Senator (who incidentally as pointed out by **Frank** would laugh at your rubbish) and a third-rate “comedian” whose fanbase primarily consists of fedora-wearing obese dysgenic losers who consider themselves “scientists” for having watched _Cosmos_ and masturbate to My Little Pony pornography while munching on Doritos and drinking Mountain Dew.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/46 "2015-11-23T05:34:02Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> ever heard of a Scoop Jackson Democrat? .
Scoop was my hero, I was one of his delegates-to-be. Called me himself. Great man, would have been a much better president than Carter.
And, you’re pretty much wrong about him.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/47 "2015-11-23T15:36:40Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> … a third-rate “comedian” whose fanbase primarily consists of fedora-wearing obese dysgenic losers who consider themselves “scientists” for having watched _Cosmos_ and masturbate to My Little Pony pornography while munching on Doritos and drinking Mountain Dew.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but the context makes this appear to be a reference to Bill Maher. If so, may I say that this is a very strange way to characterize the members of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, who nominated _Real Time with Bill Maher_ for a Primetime Emmy Award for excellence in Outstanding Variety, Music or Comedy Series every year from 2005 through 2014, and in 2015 for “Bill Maher: Live From D.C.” as best Variety Special. Two of his earlier HBO specials were also Emmy-nominated.
The show is a good example of how HBO established its reputation for quality in original programming. When it was renewed last year for a 13th season, the president of HBO stated that “Bill Maher has been a treasured member of the HBO family since the late '80s, and his irreverent wit and fearless insights make him the perfect observer for these unpredictable times. I’m delighted that we can continue to offer an uncensored forum for his original and thoughtful humor.” _Politico_ described Maher as “a pugnacious debater and a healthy corrective to the claptrap of cable news”. _Variety_ said of the show “there may not be a more eclectic guest list on all of television.” It’s been renewed yet again for the 14th and 15th seasons, through to at least the end of 2017.
Given the utterly bizarre political views in the OP offering a view of the Democratic Party that is straight out of Fox News or maybe even Alex Jones, and now your fantastically imaginary characterization of Bill Maher, this thread is beginning to feel like some Twilight Zone version of other-worldly unreality. I grant you that Maher is a “love him or hate him” kind of polarizing personality, but your characterization of his fan base is ridiculous and, frankly, offensive.
---
### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/48 "2015-11-23T21:44:21Z")
Barack Obama is not a centrist. He is the third most hawkish president since Truman (GWB, LBJ). He has largely maintained the hawkish posture of GWB at a time when the United States had no industrialized enemies. That is quite a feat. He has sowed the seeds for current as well as distant and near future wars with his haphazard interventions, but he won’t be blamed for them. The right has an interest in painting him as a pacifist, the left has an interest in painting him as a peacemaker. His foreign policy legacy will be as misunderstood as Reagan’s domestic policy, and for similar reasons.
He is a pure authoritarian in the Nixonian sense domestically as well, thankfully the tea party was able to throw a wrench into some parts of his program. They are lunatics, but useful in that way.
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### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/49 "2015-11-23T21:46:23Z")
It seems the Bernie supporters are forgetting when the aging New Dealer had his mic hijacked by Maoist elements in his party.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/50 "2015-11-23T22:38:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> It seems the Bernie supporters are forgetting when the aging New Dealer had his mic hijacked by Maoist elements in his party.
:rolleyes: Whatever the BLMers are, they ain’t “Maoist.”
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### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/51 "2015-11-23T22:51:01Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#):
>
> The fact that anyone would deliberately and willfully perpetuate lies, that they know are lies, in order to advance and agenda that is ultimately hurtful to the people they are elected to represent is… well… I don’t even have a word for it. But I’d rather they be in prison than hold elected office. That this kind of stuff is somehow accepted, or even thought of as normal is also mind boggling.
We’d run out of land to build prisons for politicians if that was the standard.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/52 "2015-11-23T23:16:17Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#):
>
> In this context I would probably say pluralistic relativism.
How is that an advance over scientific rationalism? Or is it?
---
### Author:  [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/53 "2016-04-02T03:16:35Z")
In light of a rather remarkable discovery I made, I’m bumping this thread.
I found an interesting factoid out there that makes me wonder if the Democrats really have gone that far to the left:
In 2008, [Hillary said](http://www.cfr.org/elections/clintons-speech-aipac-conference/p16420): " When Islamic extremists, including the leaders of nations, proclaim death to America, death to Israel, we understand that our two nations are fighting a shared threat. "
She [also said](https://web.archive.org/web/20081204061801/http://clinton.senate.gov/~clinton/speeches/2005217C29.html): “It is precisely those values that we share that are under attack from the radical Islamist extremists.”
Even Obama (tho prodded) [said](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-th_n_92077.html): “Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.”
Has the Democratic party moved that far to the left? I think [Bill Maher is 1000% right on this issue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIbDaqPXG8). I know the Hillary at heart still would use those words but for how far-left the party’s base has moved. She does use the term “jihadism” which ultra-liberals and Obama won’t even use. But still.
This epitomizes how how moderates are now seen as evil on both sides. I think Tom Ridge has made a [great point](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/donald-trump-ted-cruz-2016-911-muslims-tom-ridge-213785).
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/54 "2016-04-02T12:24:46Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> In light of a rather remarkable discovery I made, I’m bumping this thread.
>
> I found an interesting factoid out there that makes me wonder if the Democrats really have gone that far to the left:
>
> In 2008, [Hillary said](http://www.cfr.org/elections/clintons-speech-aipac-conference/p16420): " When Islamic extremists, including the leaders of nations, proclaim death to America, death to Israel, we understand that our two nations are fighting a shared threat. "
>
> She [also said](https://web.archive.org/web/20081204061801/http://clinton.senate.gov/~clinton/speeches/2005217C29.html): “It is precisely those values that we share that are under attack from the radical Islamist extremists.”
>
> Even Obama (tho prodded) [said](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-th_n_92077.html): “Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.”
>
> Has the Democratic party moved that far to the left? I think [Bill Maher is 1000% right on this issue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIbDaqPXG8). I know the Hillary at heart still would use those words but for how far-left the party’s base has moved. She does use the term “jihadism” which ultra-liberals and Obama won’t even use. But still.
>
> This epitomizes how how moderates are now seen as evil on both sides. I think Tom Ridge has made a [great point](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/donald-trump-ted-cruz-2016-911-muslims-tom-ridge-213785).
The fight about rhetoric is a fight about nothing. What matters is actions, and in terms of actions, Obama had been the most effective enemy of radical Islamic terrorists of any president in history.
---
### Author:  [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/55 "2016-04-02T16:01:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> The fight about rhetoric is a fight about nothing. What matters is actions, and in terms of actions, Obama had been the most effective enemy of radical Islamic terrorists of any president in history.
when you’re President, words ARE actions. By not using the term “Islamic terrorism,” Obama and party members are acting by standing/pandering with the far-left. It’s also an act of NOT standing with those oppressed by Islamic fundamentalism and terror: people like Jews (who have been big players in Obama’s own party), women, gays, Yazidis, Bahaiis, etc. The irony is that the left is supposed to care about women, LGB, ethnoreligious minorities (like Jews and Yazidis but then again, the far-left likes Jews no more than the Euro-right) so condemning Islamic radicalism should be natural. Oh but since many Muslims don’t have white skin, its OK. Edward Said’s lies trump everything else.
I mean if a French socialist President (a President in a country with a lot more Islam than America, and a party with a lot more Muslim voters) can use the term (which Obama has censored), so can Obama.
This shouldn’t even be a left/right matter. Here’s a Hillary biographer (not a conservative) saying [the truth](https://www.yahoo.com/news/democrats-problem-radical-islam-091643745.html) about this:
> [@](#):
>
> [F]or Democrats, whether Obama or the presidential candidates, the best way to set themselves apart from the Republican approach of appealing to fear isn’t to pooh-pooh people’s anxieties, or to obfuscate and dismiss the problem. Rather, the best strategy is to name it accurately, explain it to the public, and lay out smart, comprehensive strategies that go beyond a bombing campaign.
Its sad; Hillary demonstrated in the past she knows better, but her party has moved too far to the left. I miss the DLC/Third Way, really badly.
---
### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/56 "2016-04-02T16:28:50Z")
I, personally, find the President’s explanation for why he uses the terms he does a lot more persuasive than your theory. It has nothing to do with pandering to the far-left (probably the least powerful political group in the US, btw) or anti-Semitism.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/57 "2016-04-02T16:43:27Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> when you’re President, words ARE actions. By not using the term “Islamic terrorism,” Obama and party members are acting by standing/pandering with the far-left. It’s also an act of NOT standing with those oppressed by Islamic fundamentalism and terror: people like Jews (who have been big players in Obama’s own party), women, gays, Yazidis, Bahaiis, etc. The irony is that the left is supposed to care about women, LGB, ethnoreligious minorities (like Jews and Yazidis but then again, the far-left likes Jews no more than the Euro-right) so condemning Islamic radicalism should be natural. Oh but since many Muslims don’t have white skin, its OK. Edward Said’s lies trump everything else.
Bullshit. It’s a difference in strategy. You might disagree, but it’s entirely reasonable to believe that there may be millions of Muslims who are “on the fence”, and may dislike both the US and the terrorists, and more overt anti-Muslim rhetoric could tip them over to be less likely to report terrorism that they hear about, or less likely to cooperate with law enforcement or security agencies.
It’s absolutely not about pandering – it’s about _what rhetorical strategy he believes is most effective in ensuring the support and cooperation of moderate (or even conservative, but not murderous) Muslims_.
It’s fine if you disagree, but it’s not about pandering, and it’s not making the fight against terrorism any weaker whatsoever. It’s not even about left/right – it’s just about the most effective way to fight terrorists, and ensure every other Muslim doesn’t see America and the West as in a war against Islam.
The rhetoric you want _is what ISIS wants_. You are advocating for rhetoric that helps ISIS – their entire goal is for every Muslim to see America and the West as at war against Islam. They want Trump or Cruz elected, because _they want hatred, war, and conflict_. We should avoid doing what our enemies want – and what ISIS fears most is that most Muslims will see America and the West as friends who are open to their religious beliefs.
Your approach helps ISIS and hurts America.
---
### Author:  [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/58 "2016-04-07T15:27:44Z")
now that the ADL has [called out Bernie’s lies](http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/israel-middle-east/adl-calls-on-sen-bernie-sanders-to-correct-misstatement.html#.VwZjN6QrKCg), which were obviously meant to pander to the far-left, I wonder if the bark will be peeled off this self-hater.
The anti-Semitism in the far-left, that self-hater Bernie panders to, needs to be stopped before it reaches critical mass as it has in Corbyn’s Labour Party.
---
### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/59 "2016-04-07T18:44:00Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> Because angry voters are motivated voters, the ones who are most likely to turn out in the primaries. So every candidate has to pass inspection by angry voters if they want to get enough delegates to even have a shot at the nomination. And angry voters don’t particularly respond to “let’s reach across the fence and find workable solutions,” as a rallying cry.
It’s not even “angry” voters. It’s more that the party extremists (on either side) are probably more likely to vote overall, and drastically more likely to vote in primaries.
So to win a primary, you have to appeal to the set of people who vote in primaries, who skew toward the extreme for each party.
People who aren’t strongly affiliated with a party, or are unaffiliated are both more likely to be centrist, and not to vote in party-specific primaries.
This means that during primary season, the rhetoric is a bit more extreme than during the actual election time, as they’re not trying to play “more Republican/Democrat than thou”, and are concentrating on their opponent from the other party. So you tend to see a softening of the rhetoric and a more center-facing ideological turn after the primaries.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/60 "2016-04-07T19:26:52Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> By not using the term “Islamic terrorism,” . . .
:rolleyes: If that’s all ya got, ya got nuttin’.
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