# Will Centrist Politics Ever Return?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [November 20, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056 "2015-11-20T06:31:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/101 "2016-04-10T10:29:32Z")
It still took them months to be mad about that youtube video or cartoons. Evidently internet access isn’t as good as they think it is.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/102 "2016-04-10T14:10:39Z")
If the Arab street only heard what the state-run media wants them to hear, there wouldn’t have been an Arab spring. Except for North Korea, information pretty much flows unregulated throughout the world. Don’t think for a minute that whenever a Republican politician whines about Obama not using the term “Islamic terrorism” that it goes unnoticed in the Muslim world.
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### Author:  [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/103 "2016-04-10T14:26:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> It isn’t reverse psychology. The Arab street pays attention to what American politicians, media types, and social media says. If they hear a constant barrage of obsession about “Islamic terrorism”, what they hear is “The US hates Islam”. Fair? Maybe, maybe not. But it is the reality. When the people believe that the US hates them, it makes them more likely to be recruited by terrorist organizations. What conservatives are doing in their infantile gotcha attacks on Obama for not uttering the phrase makes the US less secure and results in people getting killed.
why can Americans and the West be self-critical but the Muslim Street can’t be? Why do we have to worry about how we make them feel but they never worry about how we feel?
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/104 "2016-04-10T14:41:12Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> why can Americans and the West be self-critical but the Muslim Street can’t be? Why do we have to worry about how we make them feel but they never worry about how we feel?
Is there evidence that the Muslim street is not self-critical? How many times do American conservatives complain that Muslims didn’t condemn 9/11 and other terrorist attacks despite much evidence to the contrary? I’d say they worry a great deal about how the West feels because the West has the military muscle that the Muslim world does not plus the history of colonialism in that part of the world plus politicians that openly talk about seizing their oil fields.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/105 "2016-04-10T14:43:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> Is there evidence that the Muslim street is not self-critical? How many times do American conservatives complain that Muslims didn’t condemn 9/11 and other terrorist attacks despite much evidence to the contrary? I’d say they worry a great deal about how the West feels because the West has the military muscle that the Muslim world does not plus the history of colonialism in that part of the world plus politicians that openly talk about seizing their oil fields.
Seizing oil fields is a straw man. The reality is that, in general, it costs far more to get that oil than it would actually be worth. Politicians can talk about it all they want, it doesn’t change the facts.
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### Author:  [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/106 "2016-04-10T15:00:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> the Muslim world does not plus the history of colonialism in that part of the world
Ummm ever heard of the Caliphates? They were pretty sizable empires, in both population and natural resources. The last one, the Ottomans, at its [greatest extent](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/OttomanEmpireIn1683.png), would have a population larger than the US under those borders. (You can [calculate it](https://populationexplorer.com/) with this tool)
> [@](#):
>
> Is there evidence that the Muslim street is not self-critical? How many times do American conservatives complain that Muslims didn’t condemn 9/11 and other terrorist attacks despite much evidence to the contrary?
There’s plenty, when [much of the Muslim world](http://www.pewglobal.org/files/pdf/253topline.pdf) (see page 19) [doesn’t wanna believe](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/22/world/europe/22cnd-pew.html?_r=0) that the perpetrators of September 11 indeed were who they were. Or when there’s always some excuse or “but” about terrorism.
> [@](#):
>
> Not just more likely to be recruited by terrorists, but less likely to cooperate with those fighting terrorists, less likely to vote for and support leaders who advocate for closer ties to the US, less likely to report extremist neighbors, etc.
Ever heard of good and evil? It exists, contrary to what many progressive wish.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/107 "2016-04-10T15:12:48Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> Ummm ever heard of the Caliphates? They were pretty sizable empires, in both population and natural resources. The last one, the Ottomans, at its [greatest extent](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/OttomanEmpireIn1683.png), would have a population larger than the US under those borders. (You can [calculate it](https://populationexplorer.com/) with this tool)
>
> There’s plenty, when [much of the Muslim world](http://www.pewglobal.org/files/pdf/253topline.pdf) (see page 19) [doesn’t wanna believe](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/22/world/europe/22cnd-pew.html?_r=0) that the perpetrators of September 11 indeed were who they were. Or when there’s always some excuse or “but” about terrorism.
>
> Ever heard of good and evil? It exists, contrary to what many progressive wish.
Yeah well a lot of conservatives seem to have no problem doing business with Wahabbis, and it is they have been single-handedly responsible for exporting extremism throughout the world the last 4-6 decades.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/108 "2016-04-10T15:21:35Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> why can Americans and the West be self-critical but the Muslim Street can’t be? Why do we have to worry about how we make them feel but they never worry about how we feel?
Plenty of them are self-critical, but the reason we have to act better is that _we have the power_. We have the power, and we have to be better. Sinking to the level of the bad guys is what they want and makes everything worse.
Your strategy weakens America and strengthens our enemies. Obama’s does not.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/109 "2016-04-10T18:43:38Z")
I just wanted to pause and note how funny I found the title of this thread. “Will centrists ever return to power?” In the case of the Democratic Party the centrists ARE in control and HAVE BEEN in control since the 1980s. The success of the Sanders campaign is the first SIGN that progressives might get some power in the Democratic Party, though by all indications, in the event of a Hillary victory, there will be no power sharing, even if the Democratic base is polling way to the left of their elected representatives.
As for WHY centrists have lost power among the Republicans and are in danger of losing it among Democrats, the answer is simple: they’ve failed. They have a history of failure. Not just failure in piddly Washington bobble head ways, but in important ways that have huge impact on the lives of ordinary Americans. The [rising mortality rate of middle-class white men](http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/boomers-deaths-pnas/413971/)in the US, which is happening nowhere else in the world and to no other demographic group in the First World, is the canary in the coal mine for the centrists. And it’s only gonna get worse under continued centrist governments, because the Dem centrists don’t give a shit about the middle class, any more than the Republican oligarchs do.
The progressives and the far right at least sense that something is wrong, and they know that the centrists have no solutions. That’s why the electorate is turning to them. The difference between the progressive and the far right is that the progressives have solutions that just might work, whereas the far right goes for demogoguery and a return to past policies that are even more ineffective than the centrists’.
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### Author:  [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/110 "2016-04-10T19:59:08Z")
Centrist politics will return after the conventions: both sides will start appealing to the centre ground.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/111 "2016-04-10T20:24:49Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> Are you talking about some Labour Party Brit? Obviously either “labour” or “Senator” is a typo. ( **Qin** , if you’re using Chrome, then Settings–\>Advanced–\>Languages will let you choose any of five Englishes for spell-checking.)
No, like Lovecraft I simply prefer to use British spelling. Obviously by the mid-20th Century Labour and Liberal would be mutually exclusive in the context of British politics as they were differing parties.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/112 "2016-04-10T20:54:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#):
>
> I just wanted to pause and note how funny I found the title of this thread. “Will centrists ever return to power?” In the case of the Democratic Party the centrists ARE in control and HAVE BEEN in control since the 1980s. The success of the Sanders campaign is the first SIGN that progressives might get some power in the Democratic Party, though by all indications, in the event of a Hillary victory, there will be no power sharing, even if the Democratic base is polling way to the left of their elected representatives.
People threatening to take away their votes is not an effective persuasion technique.
> [@](#):
>
> As for WHY centrists have lost power among the Republicans and are in danger of losing it among Democrats, the answer is simple: they’ve failed. They have a history of failure. Not just failure in piddly Washington bobble head ways, but in important ways that have huge impact on the lives of ordinary Americans. The [rising mortality rate of middle-class white men](http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/boomers-deaths-pnas/413971/)in the US, which is happening nowhere else in the world and to no other demographic group in the First World, is the canary in the coal mine for the centrists. And it’s only gonna get worse under continued centrist governments, because the Dem centrists don’t give a shit about the middle class, any more than the Republican oligarchs do.
That link title is deceptive. The article states that the mortality rate of white men is generally increasing across the board except in the case of white men with at least some college education, which is slightly decreased. Nowhere does it say anything specifically about the middle class.
> [@](#):
>
> The progressives and the far right at least sense that something is wrong, and they know that the centrists have no solutions. That’s why the electorate is turning to them. The difference between the progressive and the far right is that the progressives have solutions that just might work, whereas the far right goes for demogoguery and a return to past policies that are even more ineffective than the centrists’.
The progressives always want to enact radical change, which in the end, if anything gets done, is always far less than they wanted. And the far right is completely invested either in maintaining the status quo or returning to ‘better’ (read more draconian for everybody else) times.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/113 "2016-04-10T21:05:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#):
>
> That link title is deceptive. The article states that the mortality rate of white men is generally increasing across the board except in the case of white men with at least some college education, which is slightly decreased. Nowhere does it say anything specifically about the middle class.
So besides your nitpick, I presume you agree with the rest of the article?
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/114 "2016-04-10T21:31:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> So besides your nitpick, I presume you agree with the rest of the article?
I tend to trust the PNAS as far as the stats are concerned, but that doesn’t mean a paper they publish is always completely correct. I can’t say as far as the analysis is concerned, but I don’t necessarily buy that a correlation between increased drug/alcohol use and ‘harder times’ _is_ the cause.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-centrist-politics-ever-return/738056/115 "2016-04-10T21:47:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#):
>
> I tend to trust the PNAS as far as the stats are concerned, but that doesn’t mean a paper they publish is always completely correct. I can’t say as far as the analysis is concerned, but I don’t necessarily buy that a correlation between increased drug/alcohol use and ‘harder times’ _is_ the cause.
Well what else do you think can be the cause, especially given such precedent as Russia’s dramatic spike in her death-rates after the collapse of the Soviet Union? Do you not agree that a large portion of the American people have indeed be undergoing “hard times”?
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