# Will Clayton Locketts Torture be the Rosa Parks moment of the Campaign against judicial killing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339 "2014-04-30T05:47:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/621 "2014-07-24T16:24:29Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How much money would I have to plunk down for the privilege? Hey what a great idea for a new revenue stream! We can auction off the right to kill prisoners. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of sociopathic right wingers that would jump at the chance to execute someone. We could even televise it on PPV. Budget issues solved? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/622 "2014-07-24T16:55:05Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Hey what a great idea for a new revenue stream! We can auction off the right to kill prisoners. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of sociopathic right wingers that would jump at the chance to execute someone. We could even televise it on PPV. Budget issues solved? Are you including me among those “sociopathic right wingers”? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/623 "2014-07-24T16:58:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Are you including me among those “sociopathic right wingers”? If you’re itching at the chance to sign up to execute someone, then you just may be, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/624 "2014-07-24T16:58:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then we’re in agreement that the anti-DP crowd have blood on their hands for making it impossible for states to get their hands on the chemicals that we know will kill these people safely and humanely. I’m not sure what the problem is. Obviously, it’s not terribly difficult to obtain the chemicals that will render someone unconscious for surgery safely and humanely. Once that’s accomplished, removal of all the useful organs ought to be simple enough, and would accomplish the purpose of carrying out the death penalty in a more useful and efficient manner. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/625 "2014-07-24T17:02:09Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Hey what a great idea for a new revenue stream! We can auction off the right to kill prisoners. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of sociopathic right wingers that would jump at the chance to execute someone. We could even televise it on PPV. Budget issues solved? [The Master speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/199/what-physically-happens-to-someone-electrocuted-in-the-electric-chair) > [@](#): > > I have a fear of, yet a morbid curiosity about, execution by electrocution. How does one get in to see an execution? What preparations go on before an execution? What happens to the prisoner before and after? What physically happens to the prisoner during an electrocution? Has anyone ever been strapped in, then taken out? Are there tours of Death Houses at prisons? Please try to be as detailed as possible. > — Scared Stiff in the Chair, Chicago > > Cecil replies: > Great. Another nut case. Ordinarily I try to avoid inquiries from the mentally unbalanced, but this time I’m going to make an exception, in hopes of stamping out any incipient enthusiasm for the barbaric practice alluded to above. The squeamish are advised to avert their eyes… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/626 "2014-07-24T22:17:16Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If you’re itching at the chance to sign up to execute someone, then you just may be, yes. Hmm. I don’t know that I’m “itching” at the chance to serve on a jury, but it’d be an honor, and I’d gladly volunteer; I suppose I’d feel the same way about serving as an executioner; I pretty much feel the same way about _voting,_ when you get right down to it; oh, and it’s also how I felt about guard duty, back when I was in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/627 "2014-07-25T01:33:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **Pjen** and **Smapti** , both of you back off on the personal attacks. > > Stick to the issues and leave your personalities out of it. > > = = = > > **Everyone** , it is explicitly against the rules of Great Debates [to say or imply that a poster is deriving sexual pleasure from a belief](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4749265#post4749265). Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] Not to start a hijack, but holy crap, they had to make a specific rule against that?😳 ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/628 "2014-07-25T05:35:09Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I’m not sure what the problem is. Obviously, it’s not terribly difficult to obtain the chemicals that will render someone unconscious for surgery safely and humanely. Once that’s accomplished, removal of all the useful organs ought to be simple enough, and would accomplish the purpose of carrying out the death penalty in a more useful and efficient manner. The problem is that no medical professional would be able to administer anaesthetics in such a situation as they would lose their licence to practice. Consequently only amateurs are allowed and hence why US executions by drugs currently are actually “Amateur Hour”. Also no surgeon would be allowed to remove organs after such a judicial killing without the consent of the patient. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/629 "2014-07-25T05:42:30Z")
The latest person to call yesterday’s abomination torture is Senator John McCain, that well known lily livered liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/630 "2014-07-25T05:44:42Z")
“Senator McCain, in remarks quoted by Politico, was outspoken in his reaction. “I believe in the death penalty for certain crimes. But that is not an acceptable way of carrying it out. And people who were responsible should be held responsible,” he said. “The lethal injection needs to be an indeed lethal injection and not the bollocks-upped situation that just prevailed. That’s torture.” McCain was a victim of torture when he was captured by the North Vietnamese during the Vietnam war.” > **[Arizona lawyers lead call for inquiry into Joseph Wood's two-hour execution](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/arizona-lawyer-independent-inquiry-woods-two-hour-execution)** > > Inmate's attorneys seek independent investigation into death that has reignited controversy about death penalty drug secrecy ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/631 "2014-07-25T06:03:03Z")
:dubious: McCain said “bollocks-upped”? ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/632 "2014-07-25T06:19:01Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > :dubious: McCain said “bollocks-upped”? He is quoted as such. Briticisms travel well. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/633 "2014-07-25T06:21:08Z")
The original statement on Politico: "A botched execution in Arizona on Wednesday amounted to “torture,” said the state’s senior senator John McCain. The longtime Republican lawmaker, who experienced years of torture while being held in captivity by the North Vietnamese during the Vietnam War, called the drawn-out lethal injection execution of Joseph Wood on Wednesday “terrible.” "“I believe in the death penalty for certain crimes. But that is not an acceptable way of carrying it out. And people who were responsible should be held responsible,” he said in an interview. “The lethal injection needs to be an indeed lethal injection and not the bollocks-upped situation that just prevailed. That’s torture.” “Wood was given a toxic mix of chemicals that took nearly two hours to kill him on Wednesday, according to The Arizona Republic, whose reporter said Wood “gulped like a fish on land” for 90 minutes.” Read more: [McCain: Arizona execution 'torture' - POLITICO](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/john-mccain-arizona-execution-109350.html#ixzz38SUUShCM) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/634 "2014-07-25T07:59:25Z")
When John McCain starts agreeing with you, it’s time to reexamine your beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/635 "2014-07-25T08:05:39Z")
Why does there have to be such a complex process of chemicals instead of just filling up a syringe with an overdose of anesthetic? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/636 "2014-07-25T08:12:34Z")
I don’t see the comparison to be made with an African-American woman who wouldn’t give up her seat to a white person. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/637 "2014-07-25T10:54:32Z")
I’ve seen the phrase spelled “bolloxed up,” and never connected it with the British word (spelled differently) until now. But never mind that. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/638 "2014-07-25T13:13:53Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I’ve seen the phrase spelled “bolloxed up,” and never connected it with the British word (spelled differently) until now. But never mind that. A generational matter now forgotten by younger people. When I lived in California in the sixties, no one knew what Bollocks, bollix, bolluxed up etc meant. A Brit with a sense of humor had a licence plate Bollox issued by the DMV- no-one knew. Similar to the British word Wank which then was only marginally known. Such ruderies did not make it fully across the Atlantic until the Sex Pistols “Never Mind the Bollocks- here’s the Sex Pistols” album became known. Similarly Wank did not complete the journey until internet Pron. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/639 "2014-07-25T13:31:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t see the comparison to be made with an African-American woman who wouldn’t give up her seat to a white person. There isn’t one. We covered this already. [QUOTE=Me] …I’ll just say this: the Rosa Parks of capital punishment won’t be a convict. It will be an executive branch official who refuses to carry out a sentence. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339/640 "2014-07-25T16:42:06Z")
I enjoyed the commentary in the dissent for the recent execution: > **[Executions should be by firing squad, federal appeals court judge says](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-na-nn-arizona-execution-kozinski-20140723-story.html)** > > Days before an Arizona murderer gasped and snorted for more than 90 minutes and died nearly two hours after his execution began, a conservative federal appeals judge called for replacing lethal injection with firing squads, saying the public must... > [@](#): > > Days before an Arizona murderer gasped and snorted for more than 90 minutes and died nearly two hours after his execution began, a conservative federal appeals judge called for replacing lethal injection with firing squads, saying the public must acknowledge that executions are “brutal, savage events.” > > “Using drugs meant for individuals with medical needs to carry out executions is a misguided effort to mask the brutality of executions by making them look serene and beautiful — like something any one of us might experience in our final moments,” U.S. 9th Circuit Court Chief Judge Alex Kozinski wrote in a dissent in the Arizona death penalty case of Joseph Rudolph Wood III. > > “But executions are, in fact, brutal, savage events, and nothing the state tries to do can mask that reality. Nor should we. If we as a society want to carry out executions, we should be willing to face the fact that the state is committing a horrendous brutality on our behalf.” If we are going to kill someone - kill them. Admit it. Face it openly. If we are NOT willing, then dump the death penalty. For the record (if anyone cares) - I am anti-DP because I don’t trust the justice system. I would have no problem pulling the trigger as a member of the firing squad IF I trusted the system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-clayton-locketts-torture-be-the-rosa-parks-moment-of-the-campaign-against-judicial-killing/687339.md?page=33)