# Will conservatives here reflect on malign ties between conservatism, Republicanism, and Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240 "2019-10-04T02:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/61 "2019-10-04T21:13:35Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Hey, what better time to jump back into the fray than when i for the first time (ever?) find myself in total agreement with The Shodster. And its hardly a controversial statement. This board is populated (or at least the posts and threads of a political and/or debate nature are dominated) nearly exclusively by members of one particular branch on the left-leaning side of the Democratic Party. > > When any forum features a lack of diversity in thought, belief and/or values, regardless of what the specific homogeneity of those concepts may be, the same phenomenon results. Namely a collective hive mind forms a cocoon around the intellectual space of that forum (I hate the term "hive mind"too but it’s apt here) and new unique critical thinking on political-socio-cultural issues stagnates or just never really flourishes. > > If independence of thought is expressed, it’s characterized by members of the supermajority here (and elsewhere) as such a mockable, disingenuous, morally empty position in order to marginalize and silence any further expression of dissent from the hive mind positions. So in the end, you dont have many with dissenting thought hanging around such meeting places. And why would they? Masochism? How many liberal dopers are long term members of conservative forums? It’s almost a seemingly inevitable quagmire for intellectual meeting grounds that debate or discuss polarizing and emotionally fraught subjects. Sooner or later, big bank always takes little bank. > > Case in point. You must be a Nazi!!11! Be prepared to be the target of years of character assassination and blatant misrepresentation. The hive feels great collective pain when presented with information that leads to cognitive dissonance. Thankfully they don’t have the numbers in the real world to open up gulags yet. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/62 "2019-10-04T21:13:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh the irony. Every time the glorious orange one does anything all you skyscreamers come running here with spittle on your chin and burst blood vessels in your brain to start 2847w82 threads. This is true for sufficiently enormous values of “anything at all”. President grabby hands is pretty busy doing stuff on a near constant basis which in any other administration would have been the news-leader for a week-and-a-half, but doesn’t even break through the corruption/idiocy/holy-shit-that-can’t-be-real fatigue developed by most thinking people. I swear if he had been caught on tape directing the burglary of some office building across the Potomac, it wouldn’t make the top ten in at least some weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/63 "2019-10-04T21:22:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh the irony. Every time the glorious orange one does anything all you skyscreamers come running here with spittle on your chin and burst blood vessels in your brain to start 2847w82 threads. Ya right? I mean all Trump has to do is go on the South Lawn and suggest that a foreign adversary should investigate his main political rival for … bad things…or something… And everyone loses their shit! It’s completely normal for a president to call for foreign adversaries to investigate his political enemies, amIright? Happens all the time! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/64 "2019-10-04T21:54:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In a thread last year, the question was asked why liberals tend to take electoral defeat harder than conservatives (YMMV, of course.) One theory put forth was that many conservatives tend to see it as akin to a football game, where Red outscored Blue 34-27 in the Electoral Super Bowl (or, conversely, maybe lost to the Blues 17-10.) [/SIZE] Another is that whenever a conservative (or a “conservative” of Trump’s ilk) is in charge, liberals know that everything will go to shit in a major way. When a liberal (or a “liberal” of Obama’s or either of the Clintons’ ilk) is in charge, conservatives just wink at each other as they grouse and fume and pretend that everything is going to shit in a major way. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/65 "2019-10-04T22:03:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You must be a Nazi!!11! > > Be prepared to be the target of years of character assassination and blatant misrepresentation. Ha! You obviously haven’t been 'round these parts long! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/66 "2019-10-04T22:15:29Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Case in point. I took him as just saying that **Shodan** is a snowflake, personally. > [@divemaster](#): > > Well, I do appreciate that. Back in the day I contributed more to the political and cultural debates here. Back when having a different political viewpoint or opinion could be debated, with reasonable give-and-take. But nowdays, having a non-prevailing opinion (and on the SDMB, that’s what a “conservative” position is) is not just seen as different, or even wrong. Now it’s “evil.” > > “I’m pro-life; I believe life begins…” When? Why? And is your reason for believing it one that you’d expect to persuade me (an atheist), or just one that makes you intractable to hearing scientific evidence to the contrary? > [@divemaster](#): > > “I believe in a strong second amendment right to…” Why? And do you expect your reasons to be persuasive to people who think that putting guns in the hands of civilians is a net negative to the country? > [@divemaster](#): > > “I belong to an evangelical church and believe that Jesus…” I’m not and I don’t. Um, happy birthday? There are various kinds of debate. 🙂 Oh, and thank you for showing that not all conservatives are Trumpists. It’s pretty hard to tell sometimes by the behavior of the loud conservatives on this board, which tend to range from “I’m a Trumpist!” to “I tell you I’m not a Trumpist, but I still defend Trump and everything related to him!” ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/67 "2019-10-04T22:16:48Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Another is that whenever a conservative (or a “conservative” of Trump’s ilk) is in charge, liberals know that everything will go to shit in a major way. > > When a liberal (or a “liberal” of Obama’s or either of the Clintons’ ilk) is in charge, conservatives just wink at each other as they grouse and fume and pretend that everything is going to shit in a major way. Or, they know that they will be leaving that liberal with a heaping pile of 'Murican dog shit to clean up, which will require tough decisions that are not part of the Conservative DNA. And they will do what they do best, vilify and lie about those decisions and blaming the liberals simply for being inheritors of their irresponsible governance. They play coniving politics brilliantly, thus ensuring their inevitable return to power come the next election, in order to bring “common sense conservatism” back to Washington to save us from the fiscally reckless drcisions of the pie-in-the-sky Obamas. So they kill two birds with one pile of dung: enrich themselves _and_ work to slowly dismantle democracy. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/68 "2019-10-04T22:17:46Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Another is that whenever a conservative (or a “conservative” of Trump’s ilk) is in charge, liberals know that everything will go to shit in a major way. > > When a liberal (or a “liberal” of Obama’s or either of the Clintons’ ilk) is in charge, conservatives just wink at each other as they grouse and fume and pretend that everything is going to shit in a major way. The conservatives in charge wink and pretend. Many conservatives “on the ground” buy in whole hog and are terrified, and are completely honest in their outrageous overreactions. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/69 "2019-10-04T22:31:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh the irony. Every time the glorious orange one does anything all you skyscreamers come running here with spittle on your chin and burst blood vessels in your brain to start 2847w82 threads. I know! Just because migrants are drinking toilet water in a concentration camp doesn’t mean that the outrage needs to be on the same level as Obama disrespecting America with a tan suit! Libtards need to get their priorities in order. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/70 "2019-10-04T23:35:41Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Case in point. Just a little bit of gentle mockery. I know **Shodan** is capable of actual thoughtful discussion – I’ve even had such exchanges with him. But not recently. Lately, it seems like he doesn’t even try. And in this thread, he even threadshits at the very same time that another conservative comes in and makes a great and very thoughtful post about conservatism and Trump, proving that this board is not what he says it is. So when he doesn’t even try to make a thoughtful post, poo-pooing even the idea of having a thoughtful discussion, I rib him a little. No big deal! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/71 "2019-10-05T00:23:43Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Yes. True, the Overton window _has_ moved, regrettably. But at this point, to trot out that P J O’Rourke chestnut _one more time_, at least Pence is “wrong within normal parameters.” Pence is the Scum who forced Indiana women to ultrasound and hold expensive funerals for their fetuses. His resume reads like a litany of the worst and ugliest GOPshit. He would be BY FAR the most right-wing nasty to ever occupy the Oval. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/72 "2019-10-05T00:41:38Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Hey, what better time to jump back into the fray than when i for the first time (ever?) find myself in total agreement with The Shodster. And its hardly a controversial statement. This board is populated (or at least the posts and threads of a political and/or debate nature are dominated) nearly exclusively by members of one particular branch on the left-leaning side of the Democratic Party. > > When any forum features a lack of diversity in thought, belief and/or values, regardless of what the specific homogeneity of those concepts may be, the same phenomenon results. Namely a collective hive mind forms a cocoon around the intellectual space of that forum (I hate the term "hive mind"too but it’s apt here) and new unique critical thinking on political-socio-cultural issues stagnates or just never really flourishes. > > If independence of thought is expressed, it’s characterized by members of the supermajority here (and elsewhere) as such a mockable, disingenuous, morally empty position in order to marginalize and silence any further expression of dissent from the hive mind positions. So in the end, you dont have many with dissenting thought hanging around such meeting places. And why would they? Masochism? How many liberal dopers are long term members of conservative forums? It’s almost a seemingly inevitable quagmire for intellectual meeting grounds that debate or discuss polarizing and emotionally fraught subjects. Sooner or later, big bank always takes little bank. > > Case in point. So I take it that introspection about conservatism in the US today is not in the cards for you and your answer would be No? What do you think wil happen? You know it is a power move to do that, move towards being thoughful about oneself. Too much “hive” talk is just lazy shorthand for “I don’t introspect, thank very much. That overton window doesn’t move by itself” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/73 "2019-10-05T01:09:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Pence is the Scum who forced Indiana women to ultrasound and \*\*hold expensive funerals for their fetuses. \*\* What…?? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/74 "2019-10-05T01:10:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That a lot of liberals, particularly on the SDMB, can’t stand to read something with which they disagree but they find difficult to refute, is more an observation than an intention. > There is not a lot I can do to make people read what I actually post, rather than have them react to what they think I post, or want me to have posted, or have them tell me what I posted and what I meant by it. > > It is not possible to phrase something carefully enough that a person with enough of the right kind of motivation cannot misinterpret it. Certainly not on the SDMB. Cite: half the posts in this thread, any other thread about Trump, any thread about race, any thread about gender, or any other thread that creates a disturbance in the liberal Force. > It could be. I rather doubt, however, if you are going to get a whole bunch of thoughtful reflection from liberals in the Pit about what they should have done, or not done, that contributed to Trump’s Presidency. Unless ‘he is even worse than I thought’ counts as thoughtful reflection. > The board deals with reality by Pitting it. Sometimes it doesn’t work, which leaves it rather at a loss. > > Regards, > Shodan Well if you should attempt to chime in, the concept for me is how are the three things in the title related, if they are. It probably would need to be defended if you were to just say “What me worry?” or something like that. That’s not enough for the Shodestar is it? I mean we are sentient adults looking out at a shared nation. Nothing to see? If it is not a legitimate intellectual inquiry to think about it, for a conservative, then what does that mean? Have the conservatives given up on literacy? What kind of intellectual, what kind of fighter of ignorance cedes and surrenders the very idea of thinking about ones own behavior to “liberal” others? You know not every political thread has to have liberals coming in to say what they did wrong. (This one is one of them) It depends on the OP and how it’s written. Every thread isn’t politically equal either. Some threads are not supposed to be perfectly balanced. (Just start an opposing thread if desired.) This thread might look bad for righties. So what? It’s an intellectual inquiry. Griping about the hive mind is getting old isn’t it? Arent you sick of it yourself? It is an impediment to knowledge and a boon for ignorance because it stops all motion. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/75 "2019-10-05T02:00:38Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So I take it that introspection about conservatism in the US today is not in the cards for you and your answer would be No? Are you assuming [**Ambivalid**](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21729633&postcount=11) is a conservative? I see this a little too often around here. Someone disagrees with a point about politics and then the immediate assumption is they’re playing for the other team. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/76 "2019-10-05T02:25:19Z")
They will not; they will simply slink off, point out how “both sides did it,” claim they would have been better if liberals hadn’t been assholes, and whitewash their history. Fuck that – I’m gonna rub their nose in the shit they left on the carpet for as long as I live. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/77 "2019-10-05T02:33:08Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > So I take it that introspection about conservatism in the US today is not in the cards for you and your answer would be No? > > What do you think wil happen? You know it is a power move to do that, move towards being thoughful about oneself. > > Too much “hive” talk is just lazy shorthand for “I don’t introspect, thank very much. That overton window doesn’t move by itself” Way to read want you want into what ive written. This is silly and it doesn’t address any of the points i made in my post. You’ve also sort of validated what you clearly haven’t bothered to do more than briefly skim for buzzwords to latch onto and engage with in your usual provocative, unnecessairly aggressive and confrontational posting style. And to answer, what do i think will happen if a bunch of non-existent people start examining and taking personal stock of their non-existent political beliefs? I think nothing will happen. Other a bunch of time will pass and a lot of circles will be jerked. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/78 "2019-10-05T02:34:26Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I am a small c, New England, William F. Buckley conservative. > I have no fucking idea what the current Republican party is thinking. Their actions do not align with anything I have held to be conservative values. William F. Buckley was a CIA operative and an FBI informant who explicitly supported a totalitarian state to defeat the Russians. He would be aligned with the Democratic Party of today for sure. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/79 "2019-10-05T02:43:58Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Way to read want you want into what ive written. This is silly and it doesn’t address any of the points i made in my post. You’ve also sort of validated what you clearly haven’t bothered to do more than briefly skim for buzzwords to latch onto and engage with in your usual provocative, unnecessairly aggressive and confrontational posting style. > > And to answer, what do i think will happen if a bunch of non-existent people start examining and taking personal stock of their non-existent political beliefs? I think nothing will happen. Other a bunch of time will pass and a lot of circles will be jerked. I took you to be saying there is a hive mind on the left. I don’t know your history. Were you? I find the “hive mind!” accusation more stifling of communication than any supposed hive mind of liberals agreeing with each other, (as if there’s something weird about it.) It comes up as the default hive-like conservative response to any rhetorical problem they get into. Meaningless. Anyone can post here for free. People should make it good, and be honest, wherever you come from politically. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/80 "2019-10-05T02:54:56Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I took you to be saying there is a hive mind on the left. I don’t know your history. Were you? > > I find the “hive mind!” accusation more stifling of communication than any supposed hive mind of liberals agreeing with each other, (as if there’s something weird about it.) It comes up as the default hive-like conservative response to any rhetorical problem they get into. Meaningless. Anyone can post here for free. People should make it good, and be honest, wherever you come from politically. The “hive mind” is on _this board_. I really don’t think my words were all that hard to parse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240.md?page=5)