# Will conservatives here reflect on malign ties between conservatism, Republicanism, and Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240 "2019-10-04T02:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2019, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/161 "2019-10-08T02:15:53Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > I care more about regular people and how the treat each other and when morally repugnant attitudes are justified by pointing at a bogeyman as their origin I don’t buy it, I’m sick to the back of my teeth of people blaming their toxic, dangerous behaviour on how bad other people are. People who knowingly support someone who is responsible for violence under the color of law really shouldn’t be lecturing the rest of us on challenging morally repugnant attitudes. In other words, shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/162 "2019-10-09T20:36:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > IMHO, one of the biggest favors Trump has done for the Republican Party is that he has made “normal” Republican conservatism look good to many liberals. It used to be that McCain and Romney were reviled by the (D)'s in 2008 and 2012, but today they are praised by many Democrats. And here divemaster has posted a traditional, mainstream, Republican Christian worldview that many liberals would have reviled before 2015 or so, but now is held up as a solid, good-faith, even honorable, alternative-to-Trump worldview. The Overton Window has shifted. It hasn’t made “normal” conservatism look good to liberals, it’s made it look a “solid, good-faith, even honorable” alternative to Trump as you said. There is a BIG difference. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/163 "2019-10-10T22:27:54Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > The easy answer would’ve been that I would vote for Hillary. But unlike some (many) I believe voting for someone is an expression of agreement with them as a person and (much of) the platform they run on. And at the time, Hillary didn’t clear that bar for me. So then it becomes deciding between the concept of needing to agree to a decent extent with the person you vote for, or some strategy to minimize damage. Fortunately, in this country I can still, for now, make that determination and act on it as I see fit. In this particular (still hypothetical) example, going back with hindsight, I’m saying I don’t know. If you were to ask me to choose between eating a shit sandwich and being castrated with a rusty chainsaw, I’d probabl give the same answer, even if one of them has fewer long-term consequences and is at first sight less severe. You said you grew up in the Netherlands. Did you live in NL as an adult and vote there? As you know, the Dutch parliamentary and party systems are very different from U.S. politics. The way the Dutch PM is selected is different from how U.S. presidents are. Again, I understand that you know this. But from reading your posts I get the impression that emotionally or sub-consciously you would choose a Presidential candidate here in much the same way a Dutch person would choose a Party and its Platform. American presidents are not beholden to their party’s platform or even to the party itself, really. It’s all about the individual. Voters here in USA tend to keep that in mind. Also no party is going to win a majority in the Tweede Kamer so Dutch governments are always coalitions. That alone is a big reason to use a different voting strategy when in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/164 "2019-10-10T23:33:32Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > You said you grew up in the Netherlands. Did you live in NL as an adult and vote there? As you know, the Dutch parliamentary and party systems are very different from U.S. politics. The way the Dutch PM is selected is different from how U.S. presidents are. Again, I understand that you know this. But from reading your posts I get the impression that emotionally or sub-consciously you would choose a Presidential candidate here in much the same way a Dutch person would choose a Party and its Platform. > > American presidents are not beholden to their party’s platform or even to the party itself, really. It’s all about the individual. Voters here in USA tend to keep that in mind. > > Also no party is going to win a majority in the Tweede Kamer so Dutch governments are always coalitions. That alone is a big reason to use a different voting strategy when in the U.S. Yes, I’m quite aware how the US system of electing presidents works. Presidents run on a platform, informed to greater or lesser extent by the platform of their party - but not necessarily dictated by them. I believe that voting for someone means agreement with at least a substantial part of their platform. And believing that they are both capable and worthy, to some extent, of leading this country. I understand that this is my very personal way of looking at this. I’m fine with others voting more strategically. But if there were a third party candidate that I agree with a lot, I would vote for them, even if that means taking a vote from the one of the two major party candidates that would be next closest to my view and efectively electing my least favorite candidate. Likewise, if I don’t find much of anything to agree with with either candidate, I won’t vote for either. That’s my way - you (collective you) do your way. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/165 "2019-10-10T23:36:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > People who knowingly support someone who is responsible for violence under the color of law really shouldn’t be lecturing the rest of us on challenging morally repugnant attitudes. > > In other words, shut the fuck up. People darkly muttering about the consequences of immoral actions (defined as supporting the wrong candidate/party/position) , talking about how there will be a reckoning, about deciding on citizenship - I think those people should shut the fck up, and maybe get back to their homework or something. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/166 "2019-10-11T00:18:33Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > That was actually not my stance per se, I was just showing how ineffective and illogical that article was by pointing out flaws in the logic of the arguments. > > … > > I hope that helps. I really do like these types of conversation, as I’ve said, the best discussions go on in The Pit, because it is largely uninhibited thought, no formality. … > **Real**. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > Well that was what is known as a “tell” isn’t it? **drad dog** : That’s not what \*\*anomalous1 \*\*wrote. I don’t believe you’re supposed to change the content and meaning of another poster’s quote like that. That’s bush league shit and the mods never call you on it. They should. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240/167 "2019-10-11T01:15:50Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > **drad dog** : That’s not what \*\*anomalous1 \*\*wrote. I don’t believe you’re supposed to change the content and meaning of another poster’s quote like that. That’s bush league shit and the mods never call you on it. They should. I didn’t change anything he wrote. And I don’t remember doing it a lot, only to make a cogent point. The last time it happened to me the poster added an emoji to my post. That’s not OK, not only because I don’t use emojis. Adding bolding, size, or colors I have seen before without incident. I’m OK with reporting it whatever the outcome. Anomalous has not been back after that. Was it offense or a good call on him? Is that all? Getting a little worried? Was that not a tell? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-conservatives-here-reflect-on-malign-ties-between-conservatism-republicanism-and-trump/841240.md?page=8)