# Will cruise ships ever be the same again? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 18, 2020, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032 "2020-04-18T03:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/21 "2020-04-19T01:45:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Isn’t it already law that foreign flagged ships cannot visit two US ports in a row? Also, how does that make sense that a foreign flagged ship be forbidden to visit a US port? It’s not that they can’t visit two US ports in a row - it’s that they can’t transport passengers between two US ports unless there is a stop at a distant foreign port. A cruise that returns to the same US port it left from has to stop at at least one nearby foreign port ( Canada. Mexico, Bermuda, some of the Caribbean Islands or Central America) so you can have an itinerary of NY, Portland, Halifax, St John, Newport , NY . If for some reason you miss the ship in NY and have to fly to Portland to meet it, the cruise line will be fined about $800/pp for transporting you from Portland to NY and they will pass that cost onto you. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/22 "2020-04-19T01:45:53Z")
I know people who have been on 50+ cruises with no problems. Those people are going to keep cruising. I read an article about the cost of nursing homes compared to cruising 365 days a year and the article made it appear to be pretty comparable as long as the elderly person can still basically function. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/23 "2020-04-19T02:16:34Z")
When the QE2 wasn’t there an elderly lady who lived onboard full time cruising the world? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/24 "2020-04-19T02:32:43Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > These ships aren’t designed as mobile hospitals in the first place. Their design makes it harder to treat patients, not easier. One of the last things you want to do with a lot of patients is isolate them out at sea. It’s a recipe for infecting all the people who go on board to treat them and for having lots of patients die. Yeah, cruise ships are not designed with features that make them really suitable for use as hospitals, and particularly not infectious disease wards. Even if cruise companies were willing to gut the interiors and rebuild to make them suitable for use as hospitals, the logistics of getting patients and equipment onboard would be problematic even if they were able to remain at quay, and of course come hurricane season the ships become vulnerable if left at dock. > [@Melbourne](#): > > I wonder if there is any realistic way to make cruise ships different. Specifically, to make crew quarters different, with isolated bunking. And laundries and kitchens different, so they aren’t all working in sardine-like conditions. Crew quarters and facilities are designed the way they are to minimize costs and maximize leisure and entertainment space. Regardless, there just isn’t any way to design an oceangoing vessel for such a large number of people that doesn’t put them into close proximity. There are things that could be done from both a design and hygiene procedure standpoint that would make ships less prone to disease outbreaks but they’re always going to be an environment in which a contagious disease is readily communicated around the crew and passengers. > [@doreen](#): > > It’s not that they can’t visit two US ports in a row - it’s that they can’t transport passengers between two US ports unless there is a stop at a distant foreign port. A cruise that returns to the same US port it left from has to stop at at least one nearby foreign port ( Canada. Mexico, Bermuda, some of the Caribbean Islands or Central America) so you can have an itinerary of NY, Portland, Halifax, St John, Newport , NY . If for some reason you miss the ship in NY and have to fly to Portland to meet it, the cruise line will be fined about $800/pp for transporting you from Portland to NY and they will pass that cost onto you. See [the Jones Act](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/27/16373484/jones-act-puerto-rico). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/25 "2020-04-19T02:56:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > My recollection is it was Flight 800 in 1996 that changed how airport security was run. Before then, unticketed people could go to the gate to meet incoming flights, and there were no gate security procedures, though I think I remember seeing metal detectors at gates before then. After that, 9/11 ushered in the TSA which ran airport security going forward, where before it was private companies and contractors. Ironically the Lockerbie plane bombing in 1988 did not result in any significant changes to airport security. I accompanied someone to their departure gate despite not having a ticket and even though I had a small Swiss Army knife (with a two-inch blade) on my keychain, on September 10, 2001. Just a day before the attacks, in other words. I thought that the Lockerbie bombing resulted in the requirement that people fly with their luggage. The shoe bomber guy resulted in passengers having to take off their shoes and didn’t the fear of liquid bombs result in the three-ounce limitation? My sense was that each attempt resulted in yet another restriction or rule change. As for cruise ships, I wonder if things _need_ to change on a massive scale. There have been other pandemics but perhaps none since the 1918 Spanish flu that was as disruptive. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/26 "2020-04-19T03:30:45Z")
I hate the way staff are treated. The people cleaning rooms and such are often from 3rd world countries and are paid little but its the best they can find so they can send some meager money back to their families. So they are paid squat and are forced to work for all these wealthy people. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/27 "2020-04-19T03:47:22Z")
I assume air travel will suck even more in the future and you can say goodbye to free non alcoholic beverages on domestic flights in the USA. And say hello to more nuisance fees. I’m painting with a really broad brush but I think there’s a lot of overlap with cruise ship travelers and the open the economy types. I think it’ll take a year or two for the cruise industry to recover but barring an long depression and stock market downturn, I think the 50+ middle America crowd that dominates the cruise industry will return. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/28 "2020-04-19T04:01:58Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > They should all go bankrupt. I have zero sympathy for any company who takes corporate handouts while flagging all their ships elsewhere to avoid US taxes. If they survive, that should be a requirement: If you aren’t flagged in the US, you can’t port in the US. Fuck 'em. What “corporate handouts” are they taking? IIRC, cruise lines were NOT included in the bailout bills. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/29 "2020-04-19T04:04:15Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I accompanied someone to their departure gate despite not having a ticket and even though I had a small Swiss Army knife (with a two-inch blade) on my keychain, on September 10, 2001. Just a day before the attacks, in other words. Well, I know for a fact that there were absolutely security lines before you could go to the gate before 9/11. It was a big political fight to establish the TSA afterwards and make it more professionally/consistently run vs using private firms, which came under criticism for the hijackers sneaking box-cutters onto the flights (hence the short blade rule you mention). I don’t know when it changed to require people passing through the checkpoint to be ticketed. > [@](#): > > I thought that the Lockerbie bombing resulted in the requirement that people fly with their luggage. No, that was flight 800. I clearly remember Pres Clinton talking on TV about how from now on, every passenger would be matched with every bag. This was when TWA 800 was considered a probable terrorist act vs the actual aircraft fault that made the fuel tank explode. > [@](#): > > [LA Times, July 1997](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-jul-18-me-13919-story.html): Within days of the TWA crash, President Clinton created a White House commission, chaired by Vice President Al Gore, to review aviation safety and security. The Gore commission’s recommendations on safety and the vital modernization of the air traffic control system will have far reaching effects in the coming years, but it is the commission’s security recommendations that are producing the most immediate effects. Commission members were mindful that another commission, formed shortly after a terrorist bomb brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 271 persons in 1988, also made airliner security its priority; most of its recommendations were never implemented. > > The tragedy at Lockerbie prompted a major effort to improve explosives detection technology. Several systems now exist. None provides the desired level of confidence and efficiency, but a combination of technologies and procedures–a multilayered system–will provide a significant improvement. The Gore commission recommended that existing technology be deployed at airports, which is happening. **The commission also recommended the implementation of passenger bag match, to ensure that terrorists cannot check in a suitcase containing a bomb and then not board the flight. Bag matching is now standard procedure on international flights. By the end of this year, U.S. airlines will have a system in place to match bags on domestic flights as well.** ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/30 "2020-04-19T06:31:42Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > There’s a lot of [new bookings](https://www.businessinsider.com/cruise-ship-bookings-are-increasing-for-2021-despite-coronavirus-2020-4) on cruise ships for 2021. And that’s not counting the vast number of people who got credit for canceled cruises and will be taking make-up cruises. > > Yeah, it’s a short term hit. But they’ll be back. > > Just don’t ask me why. I agree with this. People were going on cruises even after the first ship got stuck out at sea. When the second and third stranded ship happened, I wondered. . . who are these people who keep going on these ships despite the risk? I don’t know, but I suspect that those same people will be lining up to do it again. I’m going to guess it’s the same type of people who are holding protests about the shelter in place regulations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/31 "2020-04-19T07:36:19Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > There’s a lot of [new bookings](https://www.businessinsider.com/cruise-ship-bookings-are-increasing-for-2021-despite-coronavirus-2020-4) on cruise ships for 2021. And that’s not counting the vast number of people who got credit for canceled cruises and will be taking make-up cruises. > > Yeah, it’s a short term hit. But they’ll be back. > > Just don’t ask me why. I guess it is for things like this: > **[This Is What the First Roller Coaster on a Cruise Ship Will Look Like](https://www.travelandleisure.com/cruises/carnival-cruises-first-roller-coaster-at-sea)** > > Carnival is bringing a roller coaster to sea. > [@](#): > > Carnival Cruises announced late last year that it would build the world’s first roller coaster at sea. This week, the cruise line released images of the new attraction, along with more information about how exactly it’s going to work. > > When the Mardi Gras ship sets sail in 2020, passengers will be able to board BOLT, which Carnival is calling the “ultimate sea coaster.” Not sure if to go 🆒 or :smack: ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/32 "2020-04-19T12:12:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > See [the Jones Act](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/27/16373484/jones-act-puerto-rico). Actually, the Jones Act covers merchandise and the Passenger Vessels Services Act covers [passengers](https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-23?language=en_US), The [PSVA ( pdf)](https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ICP%20Pax%20Vessel%20Services%20Act%20Apr%202010.pdf) details the rules and has some examples of violations on page 13. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/33 "2020-04-19T12:21:20Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I know people who have been on 50+ cruises with no problems. Those people are going to keep cruising. > > I read an article about the cost of nursing homes compared to cruising 365 days a year and the article made it appear to be pretty comparable as long as the elderly person can still basically function. Those articles are making the wrong comparison - they are comparing the cost of living on a cruise ship (or Holiday Inn, I’ve seen that one too) to the cost of a nursing home or assisted living center. But people who can function completely independently don’t live in assisted living or nursing homes and the staff on a cruise ship or hotel aren’t going to help people dress or bathe. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/34 "2020-04-19T13:21:32Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I know people who have been on 50+ cruises with no problems. Those people are going to keep cruising. Retired friends of ours have been doing 3-4 cruises a year for the past eight years. They get home from a cruise, wash their clothes, pick up their mail, etc, then begin preparing for the next cruise. They put on a few pounds each cruise, then drop the pounds preparing for their next one. They get all kinds of frequent-cruiser discounts and are looking forward to even more inducements to come. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/35 "2020-04-19T23:57:18Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Retired friends of ours have been doing 3-4 cruises a year for the past eight years. They get home from a cruise, wash their clothes, pick up their mail, etc, then begin preparing for the next cruise. They put on a few pounds each cruise, then drop the pounds preparing for their next one. > > They get all kinds of frequent-cruiser discounts and are looking forward to even more inducements to come. Last cruise mrAru and I went on to the Bahamas had a couple aboard like that - they took the short 1 week cruise because the normal one they went on that was a 21 day was delayed for mechanical repairs so they opted to go on a short filler cruise. Their kids had a house with a spare room they used as their official address, they were I would guess in their 70s and in pretty good health. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/36 "2020-04-20T01:02:49Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Well, I know for a fact that there were absolutely security lines before you could go to the gate before 9/11. It was a big political fight to establish the TSA afterwards and make it more professionally/consistently run vs using private firms, which came under criticism for the hijackers sneaking box-cutters onto the flights (hence the short blade rule you mention). I don’t know when it changed to require people passing through the checkpoint to be ticketed. You are too young. The security in place before 9/11 was a result of the hijacking to Cuba fad of the mid-70s. Before that there was basically no security. The Eastern shuttle from Boston to New York let you buy a ticket on the plane - no checking at all. In December 1970 I smuggled my hamster on board in my camera case. The airline people looked suspiciously at the cage I checked as luggage. I could honestly answer that there was no hamster in the cage. Read the '50s and '60s Nancy Drews. They buy tickets at the last minute and run on the plane all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/37 "2020-04-20T01:19:02Z")
Well, yeah. But there’s a huge difference between 1975 and 2001. There absolutely was security in the 70s and 80s. I used to deadhead all over the country as a kid - dad was a senior exec in the industry and we got free passes as a routine perk of the job - and I had to go through metal detectors. You’re right that it got more stringent after 9/11. But that doesn’t at all indicate that it wasn’t there beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/38 "2020-04-20T01:55:31Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You are too young. The security in place before 9/11 was a result of the hijacking to Cuba fad of the mid-70s. Before that there was basically no security. The Eastern shuttle from Boston to New York let you buy a ticket on the plane - no checking at all. > In December 1970 I smuggled my hamster on board in my camera case. The airline people looked suspiciously at the cage I checked as luggage. I could honestly answer that there was no hamster in the cage. > > Read the '50s and '60s Nancy Drews. They buy tickets at the last minute and run on the plane all the time. How does what I wrote disagree in any way with what you wrote? Security was slowly ratcheted up from the 70’s through today. 😕 From Dewey’s experience apparently after 9/11 you needed a ticket to enter the concourse, before that you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/39 "2020-04-20T02:01:56Z")
My recollection is also that it was post TWA 800 that you needed to get carded _at the gate_ to enter the aircraft. Post 9/11, they did that before you entered the concourse. Before flight 800, you could walk on with anyone’s ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032/40 "2020-04-20T02:44:34Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Retired friends of ours have been doing 3-4 cruises a year for the past eight years. They get home from a cruise, wash their clothes, pick up their mail, etc, then begin preparing for the next cruise. They put on a few pounds each cruise, then drop the pounds preparing for their next one. > > They get all kinds of frequent-cruiser discounts and are looking forward to even more inducements to come. Just shows some of the elderly figure they have already lived their lives to the max so why stop now? Kind of makes sense seeing one only has so long to live anyways. My inlaws have had to slow down but did that for around 15 years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cruise-ships-ever-be-the-same-again/852032.md?page=3)