# Will cultural Marxism affect Europe more than economic Marxism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 4, 2011, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295 "2011-06-04T08:42:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/121 "2011-06-07T09:17:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What that stupid blog you quoted “describes as cultural marxism” is neither here nor elsewhere. I’m referring to the description from wikipedia. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/122 "2011-06-07T13:21:59Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > I’m referring to the description from wikipedia. [Cultural Marxism is a generic term referring to a loosely associated group of Marxists who have sought to apply critical theory to matters of family composition, gender, race, and cultural identity within Western society.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_marxism) Nothing in there to imply anything for Sweden’s immigration policy, nor its purported rejection of the concept of national identity/culture. As for [Critical Theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory) in general, it might be useful, it might be useless, but it is neither evil nor nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/123 "2011-06-07T13:46:51Z")
And I’m still waiting for **RaleighRally** or somebody to explain how “cultural Marxism” was imposed on Sweden from outside. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/124 "2011-06-07T13:51:46Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > I don’t know about that. The Swedes appear to have adopted the most far left aspects of what is described above as cultural marxism. Their Integration Act 1997 basically acknowledges there is no common Swedish culture or history, stating: \*Since a large group of people have their origins in another country, the Swedish population lacks a common history. \* > > Also, you have politicians like Jens Orback saying they have to be tolerant so when Muslims become a majority they will be nice to the non-muslim Swedes 🙂 That takes bollocks to a whole new level of amazingness. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/125 "2011-06-07T16:53:06Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#): > > 1. “[F]or Sweden as a whole the figure for non-western immigrants is about 50%”. > > Says who? Him? > > In fact, going by [this OECD report](http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/28/8/38164205.pdf) (Table 4), we had unemployment rates (percent) for immigrants in Sweden in 2003 at: > > North Africa & Middle East 22.2 > Latin America 10.5 > Sub-Saharan Africa 22.6 > East/South/Southeast Asia 13.1 > Central and Eastern Europe 12.9 > North America/Oceania/Japan 8.0 > European Economic Area and > Switzerland 5.9 > Native-born 4.8 > > That’s not even close to 50%. Actually it is below 50%. Here is the table for 2006, page 67 [http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/Lists/Artikelkatalog/Attachments/17957/2010-3-11.pdf](http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/Lists/Artikelkatalog/Attachments/17957/2010-3-11.pdf) Light green = Unstable labor Green = Core labour ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/126 "2011-06-07T17:10:25Z")
[QUOTE=SherwoodAnderson] 19 out of every 20 hate crimes against non ethnical swedes are not carried out against jews but other immigrants. But only those 1 out of 20 against jews seems to bother you at all - not the others? [/QUOTE] There are only 18000 Jews in Sweden but almost 2 million with a migrant background. Jews are therefore disproportionately exposed to harassment. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/127 "2011-06-07T17:19:00Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Demographic changes are something that happens, not something that anyone forces to happen. It’s up to he who wants to close his borders and enforce a cultural model to show that it is necessary. > > By the way, I want to extend my congratulations to **SherwoodAnderson** for his infinite patience in this thread. (He’s been much more patient than I would have been.) It’s true that immigration from Muslim countries is changing the demographic makeup, and to a certain extent the culture, of Western countries, and it presents some challenges. But there’s no need to panic and think that it’s a challenge no society has ever faced. It can be done quite smoothly. I’d like it if our anti-Muslim immigration folks, instead of using terms like “cultural Marxism” which nobody quite knows what they mean, blaming the American new left for who knows what, and trying to dance around the subject, would just come out and tell us what they think should be done. Help in the vicinity of centers of conflict is much more cost efficient and saves more lives and rules out false asylum claims. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/128 "2011-06-07T17:35:27Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > As an immigrant to Sweden, it is somewhat strange to find out that I am apparently a pawn in a (cultural) Marxist conspiracy. Should I be alarmed? How would you react if your home country was filled with more and more crime/benefit-prone foreigners for each year? ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/129 "2011-06-07T17:38:50Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#): > > severe social strife such as Rosengard in Malmo. We are talking about the world’s most generous welfare state! Those who cannot provide for themselves and their families have a right to social welfare, which according to Swedish law must cover the cost for food, clothes, shoes, leisure activities, health and hygiene, health care and medicines, a daily newspaper, a phone, living expenses, electricity, commuting to work, home insurance, membership in a workers’ union and unemployment insurance. The frustrated and angry youngsters in Rosengård get health care at a minimal cost, free dental care, free school, and free college and university education, with the right to student benefits and loans. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/130 "2011-06-07T17:48:11Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > But please, please, stop whining about how the USA made you take on them dang furriners. We didn’t. Left up to us, we’d end your national health care system, your generous vacation time and protections for workers. That’s just how we roll, because we believe in treating our working class like shit, and they love it that way. Health care system, generous vacation, protection of workers, and so on, has nothing todo with political correctness. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/131 "2011-06-07T17:57:01Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > Health care system, generous vacation, protection of workers, and so on, has nothing todo with political correctness. Neither does immigration policy. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/132 "2011-06-07T18:34:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Neither does immigration policy. It depends on the country. I think in Israel it would be perfectly normal to be anti-immigration of non-Jews. But in Arizona or Sweden it sure would be very politically incorrect to be anti-immigration of non-germanic speaking people. [Germanic languages - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/133 "2011-06-07T19:01:36Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > How would you react if your home country was filled with more and more crime/benefit-prone foreigners for each year? Move to Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/134 "2011-06-07T20:15:27Z")
@ **Sherwood Anderson** Just on this point about the figures from Super Economy regarding employment rates of non-western immigrants being about 50%. This [paper](http://www.ne.su.se/ed/pdf/39-2-sflj.pdf) cites cites 80% employment rate for Swedes versus a 55 percent for non-European immigrants (but that includes North America). If you look at the [Employment database of Statistics Sweden](http://www.ssd.scb.se/databaser/makro/Visavar.asp?yp=tansss&xu=C9233001&omradekod=AM&huvudtabell=BefSyssFoIaAldR&omradetext=Labour+market&tabelltext=Population+16%2B+years+%28RAMS%29+at+national+level%2C+employment%2C+country+of+birth%2C+latest+year+of+immigration%2C+age+and+sex%2E+Year&preskat=O&prodid=AM0207&deltabell=+&deltabellnamn=Befolkningen+16%2B+%E5r+%28RAMS%29+i+riket+efter+syssels%E4ttning%2C+f%F6delseregion%2C+senaste+invandrings%E5r%2C+%E5lder+och+k%F6n%2E+%C5r&innehall=Antal&starttid=2004&stopptid=2009&Fromwhere=M&lang=2&langdb=2)", the share of the population 20-64 who were gainfully employed in 2009 was: Born in Sweden: 79.3% Born in Asia, Africa, Latin America: 46.5% ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/135 "2011-06-07T21:42:56Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > It depends on the country. I think in Israel it would be perfectly normal to be anti-immigration of non-Jews. But in Arizona or Sweden it sure would be very politically incorrect to be anti-immigration of non-germanic speaking people. [Germanic languages - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages) In Arizona it is anything **but** politically incorrect to be anti-immigration of non-Germanic-speaking people. ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/136 "2011-06-07T22:47:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In Arizona it is anything **but** politically incorrect to be anti-immigration of non-Germanic-speaking people. So why all this fuss about boycotting Arizona? My explanation is that Arizona violates the sacred principles of political correctness, that is, open borders and massive immigration. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37113818/ns/us\_news-life/t/la-approves-boycott-arizona/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37113818/ns/us_news-life/t/la-approves-boycott-arizona/) [Sweden: The Triumph of Cultural Marxism](http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3582) _“We do not believe in artificial borders. We have a vision of unrestricted immigration and emigration, where people have the right to live and work wherever they please… We want Sweden to become an international role model by producing a plan to implement unrestricted immigration.”_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/137 "2011-06-07T22:50:18Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > [Sweden: The Triumph of Cultural Marxism](http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3582) > _“We do not believe in artificial borders. We have a vision of unrestricted immigration and emigration, where people have the right to live and work wherever they please… We want Sweden to become an international role model by producing a plan to implement unrestricted immigration.”_ What he’s describing there seems to be the European Union, at least internally. What, you think immigrants from Poland are any less dangerous to Swedish national culture than immigrants from Morocco? They’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/138 "2011-06-07T23:06:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What he’s describing there seems to be the European Union, at least internally. > > What, you think immigrants from Poland are any less dangerous to Swedish national culture than immigrants from Morocco? They’re not. Well, I think there is evidence to suggest [otherwise](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3995574,00.html): > [@](#): > > Prominent Dutch politician Frits Bolkestein sparked an uproar in the Netherlands by saying practicing Jews had “no future here, and should emigrate to the US or Israel,” French newspaper Le Monde reported Tuesday. > > In the recently released book “The Decay; Jews in a Rudderless Netherlands” by Manfred Gerstenfeld, chairman of the Board of Fellows at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, the former European Commissioner and ex-leader of Holland’s ruling rightist VVD party is quoted as saying there is no future for Orthodox Jews in Holland because of “the anti-Semitism among Dutchmen of Moroccan descent, whose numbers keep growing.” ---
**Author:** ![RaleighRally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RaleighRally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaleighRally)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/139 "2011-06-07T23:14:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What he’s describing there seems to be the European Union, at least internally. Not if you read the article, then it is clear what is sought. Here’s an excerpt: \*The Green Party favor ideological Globalism in its purest form. They want a “world citizenship” to replace the national citizenship, totally free migration on a global basis, global taxes and a strengthened United Nations to ensure a just world order. - [Sweden: The Triumph of Cultural Marxism | The Brussels Journal](http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3582) > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What, you think immigrants from Poland are any less dangerous to Swedish national culture than immigrants from Morocco? They’re not. Actually there was a Swedish-Polish union at one time.[Polish–Swedish union - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Swedish_union) Swedes and Poles are more culturally compatible than Moroccans. You know deep down that I’m right, but I’m not politically correct and therefore you can not agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295/140 "2011-06-07T23:27:02Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > Swedes and Poles are more culturally compatible than Moroccans. You know deep down that I’m right, but I’m not politically correct and therefore you can not agree with me. I think a fundamental part of this, at least based on the Green Party comment, is the desire to remove any distinctions which relate to cultural or traditional identities. Of course if you remove all distinctions you can’t point to the obvious reasons why Poles might be more assimilable in Sweden than Moroccans (racial and cultural similarity - you just pretend those things don’t exist). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-cultural-marxism-affect-europe-more-than-economic-marxism/584295.md?page=8)