# Will DC or Marvel be the first to deliver a modern female-headlined super heroine movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226 "2014-02-13T08:16:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/61 "2014-03-11T19:33:55Z")
I chose ‘other’ because I don’t think any major studio will greenlight a female-lead superhero movie in the next few years. There’s too much free-floating anxiety about a potential Hillary Clinton presidency (obviously in the US, but elsewhere, too). A large proportion of moviegoers won’t be wanting to live in the fantasy of A Strong Woman Who’s The Center Of The Story, because they’re too unhappy about the prospect of that happening in real life. (_The Hunger Games_ franchise is different in that it has a ready-made, don’t-need-to-be-sold-on-the-fantasy audience. That audience is substantially large, given that it “took over” the _Twilight_ audience (to a fair extent). The comics world, dominated by young males, has little track record of producing stories or characters that would appeal to that audience. The comics audience wants its females to know their place–not to be the center of attention.) ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/62 "2014-03-11T19:45:56Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You missed the keyword “modern.” And 1984’s Supergirl is probably the first. > > [Supergirl (disambiguation) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_%28film%29) Duh, plus I didn’t even read the first post! :smack: I wish they would do X-men Origins: Storm. . . but I think Cat Woman put that thought to rest. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/63 "2014-03-11T20:05:26Z")
DC will get Wonder Woman in her own film before Marvel does for several reasons. First, as far as Marvel doing a Black Widow film, as I understand, Kevin Feige expressed interest in doing the film, and it’s “in development” which really just means they’re seeing when and where it will fit in. As it stands right now, there’s no official plans for it, and the absolute best case scenario for it would be the end of 2017, but much more likely would be 2018 or 2019. Right now, Marvel has two films scheduled for this year, Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy. Next year is Avengers 2 and Antman. After that, they’d specified three release dates, two of which are 2016 and one in 2017, but not the specific movies; however, we know that they’ve officially greenlit Thor 3 and Captain America 3, and the current rumors are the third one will be Dr. Strange. Aiming for two films a year, the earliest they have a slot available is then the end of 2017, but since I imagine Avengers 3 would probably hit in 2018, and they’re already taking risks on Antman and likely Dr. Strange, I think it’s much more likely they’d drop a safer property in that slot, particularly to set up for Avengers 3, which I think most of us are expecting to be the climactic battle with Thanos. I could see them dropping a Black Widow film soon afterward though, in the end of 2018 or sometime in 2019. That said, while Black Widow is the best known Marvel female hero, I think she would do poorly in her own film, and even if it were called Black Widow, she would need a lot of support from other characters. As for DC, I’d expect a Wonder Woman film at the absolute latest in 2018 or 2019. Unlike Marvel, which can continue to do Avengers without Black Widow, DC cannot do Justice League or maintain it’s universe Wonder Woman. She is, without a doubt, their third biggest hero, and the best known female hero. Given that we already have the Man of Steel Franchise going, and we expect a new Batman franchise with Ben Affleck, if they can’t get their third biggest hero her own franchise it would be like if one of Marvel’s tent poles, Iron Man, Thor, or Captain America failed. Sure, Hulk kind of failed, but they’ve taken two shots at him and, like Black Widow, he doesn’t need his own film to work well in the Avengers. So, here’s how I see it. We know that Man of Steel 2 is hitting in 2016 and Gal Gadot is cast as Wonder Woman in that film, and the rumors are part of the reason it got pushed back was to help set up for Justice League to hit in 2017. Assuming that is true, I suspect they’ll launch into some individual films thereafter, and I’d expect them to try to aim for about one a year or more or they’ll just get forever left in the dust of Marvel. Since they HAVE to establish Wonder Woman, I can’t see them not having hers be one of the first, meaning 2018 or 2019. Of course, they could play it safe and do MoS3 and the first Batman film in those years and push her off to 2020, but I don’t think they can wait that long to give her her own film and have 4 years before the second Justice League film. So I suspect they’ll try to get her and Batman their own films within a year or so of Justice League and use MoS3 to set up JL2 for 2020, and probably try to squeeze in whatever the next most popular character is from the JL lineup they go with, maybe another attempt at Green Lantern or I think more likely Flash, less likely Cyborg, Martian Manhunter, or Aquaman. ---
**Author:** ![Roundabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dec6dc/32.png) [@Roundabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roundabout)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/64 "2014-03-11T20:20:05Z")
With the way Warner’s been messing the DC film Universe, I don’t even know if they’ll make it to Man of Steel 3. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/65 "2014-03-11T20:38:09Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Duh, plus I didn’t even read the first post! :smack: > > I wish they would do X-men Origins: Storm. . . but I think Cat Woman put that thought to rest. Fox Studios ruined Storm. Marvel hasn’t always treated her well either. I try to forget mohawk Storm. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/66 "2014-03-11T21:03:00Z")
> [@Roundabout](#): > > With the way Warner’s been messing the DC film Universe, I don’t even know if they’ll make it to Man of Steel 3. Yeah, that is my thought. DC has no real blue print for what they want to do. They are so far behind Marvel that they may be better served sticking to the TV shows and DCAU. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/67 "2014-03-12T16:50:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > (_The Hunger Games_ franchise is different in that it has a ready-made, don’t-need-to-be-sold-on-the-fantasy audience. That audience is substantially large, given that it “took over” the _Twilight_ audience (to a fair extent). The comics world, dominated by young males, has little track record of producing stories or characters that would appeal to that audience. The comics audience wants its females to know their place–not to be the center of attention.) Not exactly. The Hunger Games series was popular in book form, but the movies are what took it into the stratosphere. People are now going back to read the books because of the movies. Twilight was the exact opposite. The book audience was the movie audience. The books were already super popular and the only people who care about the movies are those that already read the books. Notice how the four later Twilight movies all made roughly the same amount of money. The Hunger Games went way beyond that ($425 mil vs $290 mil) and seems to only be growing. Also, trying to tie the lack of female superhero movies to HRC is ridiculous. If WB opened a Wonder Woman movie in November 2016, the day after HRC became President, it would still do huge business. Provided the movie was good, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/68 "2014-03-12T19:45:45Z")
Hey, [the most recent DC superhero movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1490017/) was really good! ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/69 "2014-03-12T21:46:21Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > here’s a visual guide to the various Marvel characters and studios - [http://imgur.com/gallery/DnXShSd](http://imgur.com/gallery/DnXShSd) What I’d like to know is the conditions for the characters going back to Marvel. When the Spiderman reboot came out, it was widely reported that Sony was going to lose the Spiderman license back to Marvel it didn’t make a film every X number of years and the reboot was a way for them to keep the character. Its been a while since the last Fantastic Four movie, though they’re working on a reboot now, but does anyone know the conditions in which it would take FF, X-Men, and Wolverine to go back to Marvel? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/70 "2014-03-12T22:49:28Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I chose ‘other’ because **I don’t think any major studio will greenlight a female-lead superhero movie in the next few years.** There’s too much free-floating anxiety about a potential Hillary Clinton presidency (obviously in the US, but elsewhere, too). A large proportion of moviegoers won’t be wanting to live in the fantasy of A Strong Woman Who’s The Center Of The Story, because they’re too unhappy about the prospect of that happening in real life. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > … trying to tie the lack of female superhero movies to HRC is ridiculous. **If WB opened a Wonder Woman movie in November 2016, the day after HRC became President, it would still do huge business.** Provided the movie was good, of course. Time will tell which of us is closer to being correct. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/71 "2014-03-13T01:06:03Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > What I’d like to know is the conditions for the characters going back to Marvel. > > When the Spiderman reboot came out, it was widely reported that Sony was going to lose the Spiderman license back to Marvel it didn’t make a film every X number of years and the reboot was a way for them to keep the character. Its been a while since the last Fantastic Four movie, though they’re working on a reboot now, but does anyone know the conditions in which it would take FF, X-Men, and Wolverine to go back to Marvel? your guess is as good as mine. there’s about a 5-year gap for Spiderman and an 8-year gap for the Fantastic Four. Daredevil returned after 10 years, so… 10 years? in any case, a return would mean the character would have cooled off financially. that makes it unlikely for Marvel to use it anytime soon amidst its huge collection except as a supporting character. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/72 "2014-03-13T01:16:08Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > And you’ll notice that I also said that he wasn’t as famous as other comic book heroes who have had multiple films and series made about them. But then neither is Ghost Rider, Jonah Hex,The Flash, Wonder Woman,Green Lantern and a number of other characters who are at or slightly exceed Iron Man’s level of fame. > > What I said was that Carol Danvers was (and remains) a fringe Marvel character only known to those who are familiar with the Marvel Universe and who may remember her from her brief and failed Ms. Marvel series in late 1970s. > > It would be a waste of money to create a film whose entire length would have to be exposition of who the character is and why the audience should care about her. There never has been a demand for much about Carol Danvers (her failed comic is an indicator of that) and spending Hollywood’s limited capital upon such a marginal character would be a poor business decision. > > Sidenote: The fact that you didn’t know about the Iron Man cartoon is an indicator of little besides the fact that **you** have never heard of it. It was shown in syndication throughout the 1970s and again in the 1980s and it was part of a number of Marvel cartoons which were created in the 1960 by a then prescient Stan Lee who saw that there was money to be made in the company’s characters. > > **BTW, I’m 47, so I wouldn’t have seen it when it was on the air for its initial run.** > > Reference: > > Theme Song > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wn4iYoMcAA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wn4iYoMcAA) Speaking as someone from: 1. Outside the US 2. And thus isn’t affected by what is “syndicated” 3. Has read Marvel comic books for years 4. Tends to talk about geeky shit all the time with his friends I can guarantee you that the VAST majority of people outside of the US (if that even matters, it seems that it may be even inside) had no idea who Iron Man was, except for comic books fans. No one. Then this happened: The cultural impact of which can best be summed up by this: Now EVERYONE knows who Iron Man is. They won’t be able to tell you about “Demon in a Bottle”, but they are pretty damn sure Robery Downey Jr is brilliant in the part. The Iron Man teaser trailer is a textbook example of how to market a superhero movie. It should be studied by anyone that wants to go near the industry. It is perfection in terms of how to introduce an unknown hero to the world. It tells you everything you need to know. The cultural impact of that trailer … I’d say that the trailer to “The Phantom Menace” is the only one that comes close. In short: it shows that NO MATTER WHO IT IS, if you do it right, people will see it. And words can’t even begin to explain how right people did it. The marketing up to release of Iron Man was PERFECT. And this can be done with ANYONE. Hence the internet being hyped for Guardian of the Galaxy, most of which (oooh … I’m spotting a theme) they had never heard of before. What I find amusing is that Marvel have utterly sewn up film but can’t do TV to save their lives. DC is the other way round (although the first two of the rebooted Batman were “good”. Then again, how many Batman films had they done to get there?) And the last one was TERRIBLE). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/73 "2014-03-13T01:19:25Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I know. I liked the original team lineup, and have no idea what’s going on now. It looks like they crossed GotG with Howard the Duck. We just had an Avengers film without Ant Man or The Wasp, 40% of the original team. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think they still did OK. > **[File:Avengers-1.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Avengers-1.jpg)** > > Avengers-1.jpg (257 × 388 pixels, file size: 46 KB, MIME type: image/jpeg) > Cover of Avengers vol. 1, #1 (September, 1964); art by Jack Kirby > > Avengers (comics) ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/74 "2014-03-13T01:27:53Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I chose ‘other’ because I don’t think any major studio will greenlight a female-lead superhero movie in the next few years. There’s too much free-floating anxiety about a potential Hillary Clinton presidency (obviously in the US, but elsewhere, too). A large proportion of moviegoers won’t be wanting to live in the fantasy of A Strong Woman Who’s The Center Of The Story, because they’re too unhappy about the prospect of that happening in real life. Rubbish. Utter rubbish. You should be ashamed. > **[Home - Box Office Mojo](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/)** Iron Man 3 did 800 MILLION outside the US. They are moving towards embracing foreign markets (look at the extra scenes inserted for the Chinese market. A Korean has just been signed up for Avengers 2 and no one seems to know what part). The “domestic” market is becoming less and less significant for these movies. Even “Captain America”, a film some were so worried about on here that many thought it was going to bomb, made more money outside of the US than inside. > **[Captain America: The First Avenger - Box Office Mojo](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl1900578305/)** ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/75 "2014-03-17T23:48:18Z")
I voted for Marvel, just because they seem to have their act together with regard to movies, as opposed to DC, which seems … real out of it … ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/76 "2014-03-27T20:54:35Z")
My earlier pessimism aside, Marvel has in the last decade been reworking Carol Danvers into the sort of character Wonder Woman is sort of supposed to be. She’s even “Captain Marvel” now, with a suit that covers her legs. I don’t expect DC is going to manage to do as well marketing Wonder Woman, barring someone coming in that drags them kicking and screaming into marketing her _as her own thing_ as intently Marvel markets Iron Man. And since she’s not Superman or Batman, the corporate subculture is likely not to bother. Losing the Spider-Man and X-Men rights was a godsend to Marvel’s movie development, and I think they know it by now. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/77 "2014-03-27T23:39:27Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Losing the Spider-Man and X-Men rights was a godsend to Marvel’s movie development, and I think they know it by now. I take your point, but I think they’ll eventually cut a gigantic check to get Spider-Man back. Leave the X-men in their ghetto. They don’t fit well in the Marvel Universe anyhow. Mutant hatred is a great story trope, but it has never jibed with the adoration other powered heroes get. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/78 "2014-03-28T03:58:18Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Rubbish. Utter rubbish. You should be ashamed. > > [Home - Box Office Mojo](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=ironmanfranchise.htm) > > Iron Man 3 did 800 MILLION outside the US. They are moving towards embracing foreign markets (look at the extra scenes inserted for the Chinese market. A Korean has just been signed up for Avengers 2 and no one seems to know what part). The “domestic” market is becoming less and less significant for these movies. Even “Captain America”, a film some were so worried about on here that many thought it was going to bomb, made more money outside of the US than inside. > > [Captain America: The First Avenger - Box Office Mojo](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=captainamerica.htm) Yeah, I don’t think it has anything to do with Hillary and more to do with worries over whether a female lead in a super hero movie will make enough money or be compelling enough to justify the enormous production costs associated with making these types of films…a concern I share in the “is it compelling” category. I think about a Wonder Woman movie, or whatever, and maybe it’s just me being chauvinistic, colored by my own memories of comics that I read versus ones I didn’t , but a Wonder Woman movie just doesn’t strike me as being something I’d feel I really needed to go out and see, compared to pretty much any of the other superhero movies that were good and were made within the last ten years or so. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/79 "2014-03-29T01:13:45Z")
And a Thor movie is? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/80 "2014-03-29T01:41:28Z")
If Kickass 2 hadn’t tanked I think a Hit Girl movie would have been very viable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226.md?page=5)