# Will DC or Marvel be the first to deliver a modern female-headlined super heroine movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226 "2014-02-13T08:16:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/121 "2014-04-03T16:09:24Z")
So do Jason Bourne, Dumbledore, Spock, and Edward Cullen. There’s more to being a superhero than just being metahuman. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/122 "2014-04-03T16:25:46Z")
it would be cool if she turns out to be a super villain wouldn’t it? while the two comic book giants hum and haw over the application of their IP, someone else goes ahead and makes a successful comic book movie with the female lead as a a villain. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/123 "2014-04-03T16:36:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So do Jason Bourne, Dumbledore, Spock, and Edward Cullen. There’s more to being a superhero than just being metahuman. Hm. Spock, at least, seems to fit most of the criteria: he’s superior to humans, wears a costume, saves the world, has a convoluted origin story (human mother, alien father, yadda-yadda), etc. Heck, in the latest reboot movie he does as much wire-fu as Batman, _and_ has a super-human nemesis. He doesn’t have a “hero name”, but then, neither does Thor. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/124 "2014-04-03T17:12:06Z")
Spock wears a uniform, not a costume. Then again, so does Green Lantern. So it’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/125 "2014-04-03T17:18:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > How is she not a superhero? She’s clearly got super powers. There’s that whole “dedicated to protecting the public” bit missing. Like I said, much more in the SF action genre (I’ll admit they blur into each other, but this is clearly on the non-hero side) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/126 "2014-04-03T17:21:00Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Hm. Spock, at least, seems to fit most of the criteria: he’s superior to humans, wears a costume, saves the world, has a convoluted origin story (human mother, alien father, yadda-yadda), etc. I think the question is, is he unusual in that universe? Well, the parentage is, but he’s not superior to other Vulcans, is he? I mean, Chewbacca is physically stronger than humans, does that make him a superhero? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/127 "2014-04-03T17:22:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Lara Croft might not be a crusader against evil, but nor is she a survivor dealing with adversity that is dealt to her. All the situations she finds herself in, she willingly put herself into. > And Ellen Ripley might be just a survivor in _Alien_, but in the sequel she’s deliberately going into a mess of xenomorphs, with both eyes open. I agree with you on these. My point was that neither of them has set themselves up as a proxy law-enforcement agent (as with Superman, Batman, Captain America, etc.). I’m positing that what the mass audience dislikes or doesn’t care to patronize, is stories with a female superhero setting herself up as a crime-fighter. The mass audience will accept females putting themselves in harm’s way, then fighting their way out (as with the Lara Craft franchise and the later Alien-franchise movies)…but dislikes seeing a woman don the spandex and hang out her metaphorical shingle as the Layer Down of the Law. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/128 "2014-04-03T17:30:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think the question is, is he unusual in that universe? Well, the parentage is, but he’s not superior to other Vulcans, is he? > > I mean, Chewbacca is physically stronger than humans, does that make him a superhero? anyone from Krypton can have the same powers as Superman’s right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/129 "2014-04-03T17:50:26Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I agree with you on these. My point was that neither of them has set themselves up as a proxy law-enforcement agent (as with Superman, Batman, Captain America, etc.). IIRC, comic-book writer Mark Waid famously remarked that, despite the costumes and the super-powers, the Fantastic Four don’t actually go out looking for trouble; they’ll kick trouble’s ass if it gets all up in their faces, but they’re not crimefighters on patrol so much as they’re a happy family of celebrities who (a) would rather be exploring, or starring in another movie, or performing scientific research, or just playing with the kids; but (b) keep getting roped into self-defense situations. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/130 "2014-04-03T18:14:25Z")
One question is, are there any strong stories that have been released with a female lead? I googled for “best TPBs”, but only the new Batwoman came up in anyone’s list. Everything else was all men, teams, or not a superhero story. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/131 "2014-04-03T18:20:41Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I agree with you on these. My point was that neither of them has set themselves up as a proxy law-enforcement agent (as with Superman, Batman, Captain America, etc.). > > I’m positing that what the mass audience dislikes or doesn’t care to patronize, is stories with a female superhero setting herself up as a crime-fighter. The mass audience will accept females putting themselves in harm’s way, then fighting their way out (as with the Lara Craft franchise and the later Alien-franchise movies)…but dislikes seeing a woman don the spandex and hang out her metaphorical shingle as the Layer Down of the Law. I think you are making a very fine distinction here. What is your basis for believing movie audiences would make such a distinction? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/132 "2014-04-03T18:23:22Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > She’s also clearly not a hero. Maybe she cleans her act up in the end. We don’t know. The trailer wasn’t THAT spoilericious. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/133 "2014-04-03T20:22:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > How is she not a superhero? She’s clearly got super powers. No she doesn’t. She’s smart. Apparantly if you’re smart you can reverse time, insta-kill people with your brain thoughts and read wifi signals on a cars windshield and expand the signal to read it like a language like you’re using a touchscreen. Lame. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/134 "2014-04-03T20:23:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Maybe she cleans her act up in the end. We don’t know. The trailer wasn’t THAT spoilericious. And, like Peter Parker, devotes her life to helping multilingual Asian cabbies because she callously capped one in the head starting out? Is that the vibe you got? I see a more action-oriented version of **Limitless** , not a superhero origin. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/135 "2014-04-03T20:28:20Z")
Being smart enough to do all of that is clearly a superpower. She just doesn’t have any of the other trappings of a superhero. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/136 "2014-04-03T20:43:51Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > anyone from Krypton can have the same powers as Superman’s right? …and if they\* fought for the public good\* they’d be a superhero (e.g. Supergirl, Powergirl [sometimes] etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/137 "2014-04-03T21:31:42Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I see a more action-oriented version of **Limitless** , not a superhero origin. We’ll see. Since it is a Luc Besson movie, I think you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/138 "2014-04-03T22:15:32Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > No she doesn’t. She’s smart. Apparantly if you’re smart you can reverse time, insta-kill people with your brain thoughts and read wifi signals on a cars windshield and expand the signal to read it like a language like you’re using a touchscreen. Lame. Yeah, humans only use 10% of their brain and she was using 28%! Imagine if she used 110%! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/139 "2014-04-03T23:26:57Z")
That’s the one thing that’s giving me pause about that movie. Scarlett Johannson running around as an action hero? Great! And of course, Morgan Freeman is always worth watching. But they’re trotting out that long-debunked old canard about 10% of our brain? Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226/140 "2014-04-04T00:45:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I think you are making a very fine distinction here. What is your basis for believing movie audiences would make such a distinction? Box office statistics on movies of both types, to date. No movie with a female-lead superhero of the proxy-law-enforcement type has cracked the top of the list, whereas many male-lead proxy-law enforcement superhero movies have done well. Female-lead movies of the ‘deals with what life throws at her, but _isn’t_ set up as a Lay Down The Law type’ movies have done okay business. (This is all concerning English-language movies. I have no idea what might be the case in, say, the Chinese market.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-dc-or-marvel-be-the-first-to-deliver-a-modern-female-headlined-super-heroine-movie/681226.md?page=8)