# Will Democrats ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925 "2014-11-06T21:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/41 "2014-11-07T00:21:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sorry, but I think that’s just delusional. It’s not just Fox News that has furthered the narrative that the Obama administration’s competence is less than adequate. You can certainly disagree with that narrative, but it’s not something that sprung out of the right-wing imagination. Nope, **TonySinclair** is right, incidentally many of your OP’s points are good (although you dropped some things like your “appearing to govern poorly”. It has turned into “it is delusional to think so”). Overall what TonySinclair said does not contradict many of the OPs points, it supplements them as the reasons for the defeat were many, not only the historical and motivation ones. Among the false crap pushers out there there was a lot coming from Americans For Prosperity, and with funding from a lot of powerful sources they nationalized the local races and even funded local “grass-roots” networks. > **[Outside Group Mirrors Successful Strategies Of Political Parties](https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/08/22/342354175/outside-group-mirrors-successful-strategies-of-political-parties)** > > A U.S. Senate seat is up for grabs in Iowa, and the GOP has opened 11 field offices statewide. But there's also a new team working the state, the Virginia-based group Americans for Prosperity. > [@](#): > > Americans for Prosperity made its reputation in 2010 and 2012 as it aired thousands of TV ads attacking Democratic candidates. > > This election, AFP is adding a new element by mobilizing the grass roots: It has paid staff at work in 33 states. > [@](#): > > If that sounds like what a political party does — well, it is. AFP Iowa has been building its grass-roots network for more than a year. It now has six field offices. > > But AFP is not a political party. It’s a 501(c)(4) social welfare organization, limited by federal tax law in its ability to engage in electoral politics. > > Klein has a ready answer when people ask which candidates his group supports: “We’re a nonpartisan organization. We don’t have a dog in that fight. What we do want to make sure that we do is, we want to hold people accountable for the things that they’ve done. And so in that sense, we’re certainly happy to highlight Congressman Braley’s record.” > > In February, AFP Iowa set out to visit all 99 counties in what it called the Big Government Braley tour. > > Then came the waves of TV ads, beginning in January and never letting up. Most came from national AFP, others from Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce and Concerned Veterans for America. Those groups too are in the Koch network. On edit: Yes **adaher** , the Koch’s even owned a lot of the efforts to get their way. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/42 "2014-11-07T00:27:28Z")
To briefly go back to the celebrity candidates thing, is it true that the Democrats actually let Sandra Fluke run for something? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/43 "2014-11-07T00:35:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Fox hasn’t just made voters reject Democrats by making shit up. Suuuuure. > **[Scientific American editor goes on Fox, but asked not to mention climate change](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/30/1295892/-Scientific-American-editor-goes-on-Fox-but-asked-not-to-mention-climate-change)** > > Not Steve Doocy wanted to know if the newly discovered planets might have football. > > > > Scientific American editor Michael Moyer was invited to appear on Fox News to discuss what glorious ... > [@](#): > > Scientific American editor Michael Moyer was invited to appear on Fox News to discuss what glorious future science might bring us in the next 50 years. No problem, with one major caveat. > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > About the only interesting thing that the scientific community is sure will happen in the next 50 years is that climate change is going to get worse, and that we’re going to have to deal with the impacts. So I put that as one of my talking points. > > > > I understood that there was little chance the topic would make it into the show, but I’m not going to self-censor myself from the get-go. I also included as talking points some topics that we have recently covered in the magazine: robot drivers, gene therapy and rocket technology. The Fox producer came back and very politely and matter-of-factly said that we would have to replace the climate change item. > > > > ``` > > Well, sure. Talk about robot housewives or dinners that cook themselves—stuff that the Fox News audience can relate to. Worldwide weather changes that are going to displace millions of people? Pfft. Get to the robots. A lot of the scare about Ebola raised by FOX did benefit Christ Cristie when he traveled around supporting his fellow governor candidates. And then Rand Paul was just playing the fear monger. [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/27/republicans-want-you-scared-of-ebola.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/27/republicans-want-you-scared-of-ebola.html) > [@](#): > > And adding to this cacophony of impending calamity was Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), who on Wednesday told the news media (OK, not quite “news media,” Fox News) that new White House Ebola czar Ron Klain was “off to a bad start.” Nothing like undermining people’s confidence by saying—literally on the guy’s first day on the job—that he’s already screwing up. > > These comments are actually tame compared to the off-the-charts, scary chatter heard from the GOP last week. The craziest of all was Rand Paul, who faulted those who were saying Ebola is not easy to catch. Sen. Paul really sounded the alarm bells with the remark, “We have physicians and health workers who are catching it who are completely gloved down.” For those actually keeping score, at the time of Paul’s remark, we had only two nurses who’d contracted the disease, and zero physicians. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/44 "2014-11-07T00:40:56Z")
I realize you need any port in a storm, but to think that the Republicans won because of ebola and ISIS is just wrong. Or the Kochs. The Republicans actually did very little to win, because they are still massively screwed up as a party, although less screwed up than they were four years ago. The Democrats made this possible. The good thing about that is that what the Democrats gaveth, they can taketh away. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/45 "2014-11-07T01:01:40Z")
> [@furt](#): > > So if Rand Paul is the nominee, and he runs against Hillary on > > - a less-interventionist foreign policy > - a stronger defense of civil liberties & privacy rights > - loosening of drug laws > - criminal justice reform in general, including sentencing disparities > > .. those won’t make inroads with young voters? And she’s going to hammer him on his leave-it-to-the-states, I’m-opposed-but-wouldn’t-enforce-that-on-people-in-other-states position on gay marriage, when she supported DOMA? What else does Rand Paul believe. [I wonder…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Rand_Paul) - He supports overturning Roe v Wade - He believes discrimination in the workplace and housing is A-OK - He wants to repeal the entirety of Obamacare - He wants to build an electrified fence along the southern border and is also again the “birth in US = US citizen” part of the Constitution ## Yup, he’s really someone the kids can get behind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/46 "2014-11-07T01:03:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I realize you need any port in a storm, but to think that the Republicans won because of ebola and ISIS is just wrong. Or the Kochs. Strawman, **and I even said that many of your points in the OP are valid** , so your claim here is not what I just said: I said that those were important factors too, as usual you need the security of your blanket made of straw. And the point stands as you could not deal with the cites, FOX made (and makes) a lot of shit up. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/47 "2014-11-07T01:05:46Z")
Okay, that’s fair, I just don’t think it made as much difference as you think. The Democrats also had their billionaire backers, and especially among minority voters, resorted to some pretty terrifying ad campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/48 "2014-11-07T01:15:52Z")
Lately, Democrats run like it’s 1928. They campaign in favor of more regulation, more social programs, liberalized immigration, higher taxes, more racial preferences, as if none of this stuff has ever been tried before. They talk as if having to show a driver’s license at a polling place is exactly the same as what black voters faced in the South before the Voting Rights Act. Their constant accusations of Republican extremism are just so much projection. In reality, all of these things have been tried repeatedly and at great cost. But Democrats still campaign as if the last 80+ years of nearly unbroken victories for the progressive agenda never happened, or as if there is a real risk this could all be undone. There is only so much hysterical rhetoric one can hear before questioning their sanity, much less entertain the possibility of voting for them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/49 "2014-11-07T01:40:48Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Lately, Democrats run like it’s 1928. They campaign in favor of more regulation, more social programs, liberalized immigration, higher taxes, more racial preferences, as if none of this stuff has ever been tried before. They talk as if having to show a driver’s license at a polling place is exactly the same as what black voters faced in the South before the Voting Rights Act. Their constant accusations of Republican extremism are just so much projection. Don’t think so, the reality remains that while the leaders right now do sound reasonable in the open they still want to remove Obama or remove Obamacare the EPA and many more programs that benefit Americans. Most Americans do want changes, [but not a complete repeal](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/apr/21/democratic-national-committee/which-more-unpopular-obamacare-or-repealing-obamac/) (or Obama’s impeachment :rolleyes: ) and Bohener and McConnell are claiming now that they will follow that moderate path, but unfortunately Bohener has already found many times how the extremism of the Republican congress critters has humiliated him. I guess a lot of conservatives do want to make sure that Bohener and now McConnell are humiliated again when the time comes to vote for sensible legislation, I have seen already many examples of the extremist Right wing media telling the Republican leaders that they have another thing coming if the agenda is not like they do want it and they have more of the congress critter ears in congress now. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/50 "2014-11-07T01:41:24Z")
It seems to me that if the Democratic leadership is made up of the average Democratic Doper… then no they won’t. It seems to me the _ **general** _ tone here is to make excuses for the huge loss or cry conispiracy instead of introspection and measures that can be done to improve the message. That’s a shame. Maybe it’s too soon for introspection and I don’t think the Democratic leadership is the average Doper. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/51 "2014-11-07T01:46:09Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > It seems to me that if the Democratic leadership is made up of the average Democratic Doper… then no they won’t. > > It seems to me the _ **general** _ tone here is to make excuses for the huge loss or cry conispiracy instead of introspection and measures that can be done to improve the message. That’s a shame. Again, just a factor, and it is not a conspiracy, what AFP did was all in the open. There is indeed very little excuse for the lack of motivation and lack of focus the Democratic campaigners had. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/52 "2014-11-07T01:55:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, just a factor, and it is not a conspiracy, what AFP did was all in the open. There is indeed very little excuse for the lack of motivation and lack of focus the Democratic campaigners had. Not necessarily pointing at you, as such… I tried to couch my words with generalities rather than specifics for that reason. Just the overall tone I’m getting from Democratic Dopers in reading the various post election threads. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/53 "2014-11-07T02:13:41Z")
1. The Republicans realized they had to distance themselves from the whackos. They ran good campaigns, they made no idiot moves like shutting down the government (right before the election, that is), and they ran no candidates who tried to explain uteruses. 2. The Democrats didn’t run any really good candidates, for whatever reasons. 3. The adverse map of course, midterm Democrat apathy of course, and successful voter suppression endeavors on the part of the Republicans. 4. Republican obstructionists never wavered from the path and made this a deadly weapon in creating the perception of poor governance. 5. Obama’s own failures (healthcare rollout & messaging, and adopting Republican-like positions on privacy invasions and use of military force). Basically you have a bunch of asshats who SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT and then moan “Oh, Obama’s so awful at governing”. Somehow the political environment was such that those who showed up to vote actually bought this pile of horseshit. The Democrats need to stop being concerned about being such great Democrats and start being more like effective Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/54 "2014-11-07T02:20:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Don’t think so, the reality remains that while the leaders right now do sound reasonable in the open they still want to remove Obama or remove Obamacare Why, that would take us all the way back to the dark ages of 2009! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/55 "2014-11-07T04:04:17Z")
Another thing I can’t stand is all the hashtag hype of younger voter issues. Whee, gay marriage and pot. Healthcare reform. We WON! It’s all over Facebook! Which is all certainly must be comforting to people living by the landfill, surviving off payday loans, shipping their sons off to get their balls shot off in next-istan, and their daugher stamping license plates in the minimum security prison to pay for the cost of hot shower water. With all the NSA snooping, people nowadays just pick up the dialtone and yell “Where’s my job Obama?” Sometimes what I think we need is an Army Command Sergeant Major to run for president… just sand off the nicks and dings and you’d have a contendor. Also I am an insane alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/56 "2014-11-07T04:21:45Z")
I’m definitely seeing some lame excuses, but I’d say so far 70% of liberal Dopers seem to understand pretty well what happened. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/57 "2014-11-07T06:24:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …1) Motivation. Gotta get those voters out. This is a tough one to fix, but it’s not Democrats’ fault that this is happening. Why isn’t it the Democrats fault? Their voters weren’t motivated to go to the polls or even to vote by mail. If you want someone to buy your product, you have to be able to actually sell your product. 100’s of millions of dollars in advertising couldn’t get out the vote. The party platform couldn’t get out the vote. The hate and fear mongering couldn’t get out the vote. The Clintons and Obama couldn’t get out the vote. The Democrats spent too much money and manpower to now claim that this was “just” a midterm and no one turns out for midterms. The Democrats worked really hard for a large turnout. The party’s voters didn’t vote because they didn’t want to vote. What the Democrats were selling, the potential voters weren’t buying. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/58 "2014-11-07T06:28:03Z")
You’re right. My thinking was that Republicans didn’t have much more to sell, but that our voters are more reliable. What I should have said was that it’s not that Democrats’ fault that they have unreliable voters. It’s also true that Democrats would do better if they gave people more of a reason to vote for them, rather than just trying to make voting easier. The convenience of voting isn’t the issue and I hope Colorado finally put that lame theory to rest. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/59 "2014-11-07T06:55:59Z")
If you like Brownback in Kansas, you’re gonna _love_ Ted Cruz in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2014, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925/60 "2014-11-07T06:59:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …The convenience of voting isn’t the issue and I hope Colorado finally put that lame theory to rest. Its not the convenience of voting, it is how unequally that convenience is distributed. You’ve seen the pictures, people standing in line four, five, six hours or more to vote. Look at the pictures and tell me they look like Republican voters to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/703925.md?page=4)