# Will Democrats figure out and fix why they're losing locally? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 11, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948 "2013-08-11T18:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/21 "2013-08-12T00:50:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Really? You needed yet another insult to poison the well and prevent any attempt at civil discourse in a [del]conservative bashing[/del] _political_ thread? > > :rolleyes: Do you not know what poisoning the well means? It’s not just calling someone a name. This topic does not involve the Tea Party except tangentially. What you think of the Tea Party has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Poisoning the well is an attempt to prevent a counterargument. If you do know what it means and think there is an argument that depends on thinking well of the Tea Party, bring it. Don’t just whine about how we did something wrong. It only makes you come across as if you don’t have a counterargument. In fact, that pretty much holds in any case where you think the well has been poisoned. “You poisoned the well” is not a counter argument. Let’s say they did. That doesn’t change the truth or falsity of the statement. And you’re a conservative on a liberal messageboard. You need to get a thicker skin about these things. We’re going to say stuff that insults you. Whining about it isn’t going to change anything. Put up or shut up. As it is, you come off as just trying to distract us from discussing the topic. We spend all our time talking to you rather than sticking with the topic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/22 "2013-08-12T00:58:05Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m talking about board tactics used in this very thread, by you and the OP, among others. Then you are wrong. We cannot discuss the problem usefully in any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/23 "2013-08-12T01:03:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Then you are wrong. We cannot discuss the problem usefully in any other way. That says a lot more about a limited vocabulary than it does about your opponents. If you truly are unable to engage conservatives without calling them “idiots, bigots and dupes”, perhaps you should work on that. Maybe try outlining the positions you disagree with, and offering alternatives, rather than just insults. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/24 "2013-08-12T01:12:50Z")
I’m not sure it’s a sign of being short on vocabulary as being short on time. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/25 "2013-08-12T01:14:13Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No goal post moving. I’m obviously objecting to the tactics used on this board by the vocal left. Want to have civil discourse? Don’t poison the well with crap like “teahadist” and intentionally provocative drivel like that in post#5. > > Don’t want civil discourse? Rant in the Pit where you are likely to get appropriate responses. Seems to me that the attempt is to be very indignant on describing the extreme elements of the Republicans so as to not deal on the reasons why they get that, going to the recent memory lane, one should remember the very extreme antiabortion positions that an extremist from the middle east would adopt, up to the point of telling others that rape would not lead to pregnancy, but the point I made stands, **it is the Tea Partiers the ones that do poison the well, and from their positions of influence,** you need to take your complaints here to the Tea partiers that accuse others of being fascists or to use their gained influence to continue to declare climate scientists are frauds. > **[Three climate contrarians vie to lead House Science Committee](https://arstechnica.com/science/2012/11/three-climate-contrarians-vie-to-lead-house-science-committee/)** > > Actual grasp of science apparently not a top qualification for the job. > [@](#): > > You might expect that next year’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report would force Rohrabacher to reexamine his perspective. But it’s entirely possible that he’ll simply shrug that off as evidence of collusion among the leading scientists; that seems to be the view of the other two candidates. Sensenbrenner has appeared at the annual climate conference sponsored by the Heartland Institute, which funds efforts to counter scientific views on climate. And he has had his own YouTube moment where he accused researchers of “scientific fascism” in the wake of the release of e-mails stolen from a research institute. [http://climatecrocks.com/2013/08/11/through-a-cracked-lens-rohrabacher-on-climate-science/](http://climatecrocks.com/2013/08/11/through-a-cracked-lens-rohrabacher-on-climate-science/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/26 "2013-08-12T01:22:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s another thing they need to change. The Dems need to realize that they can move much further to the left than the Pubs have to the right **without** becoming Tea-Party-like crazy idiots in the process. That, in my opinion, would be a mistake. One of the best advantages the Democratic Party has is that the Republicans keep running to the right. This leaves the political center open for the Democrats. The Democrats can act us a moderate centrist party and still collect votes of the left. If the Democrats followed the Republican lead and catered to its extremist base, this would put the center back up for grabs. Given a choice between a conservative and an actual liberal, moderate voters would essentially flip a coin and end up splitting their votes between the parties. And face facts. In a battle between the right wing and the left wing, the right is going to win. The right has spent thirty years establishing its base. If the left tried to imitate them they’d be playing catch-up and trying to build such a base. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/27 "2013-08-12T01:35:55Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Maybe try outlining the positions you disagree with, and offering alternatives, rather than just insults. Of course I’m not **BrainGlutton** , but even **BigT** can see that I’m reporting why that insult came out, and I’m also outlining the positions, once again the Tea Party has been dropping even worse “pearls of wisdom” against their opponents\*\*, and this is indeed related to the subject at hand: one has to notice that clearly you are not aware of those insults nor what groups with connection to the fossil fuels industry did to finance the worst elements of ignorance to get elected\*\*. Nor that they also launched those accusations and worse to moderate republicans that were intelligent and saw a problem like Bob Inglis. I do not agree with just applying the insults and harsh words to All Republicans like \*\*BrainGlutton \*\*proposes, but I agree that the truth of what is going on with many of the Republicans in congress is not looked at by many moderate Republicans, just getting that group to see the horrid ignorance that is currently representing them in congress should be enough IMHO to get a good number of the moderates to not look at the Republican brand until they change their unscientific and ultimately damaging to all support that they give to the fossil fuel corporations. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/28 "2013-08-12T01:54:10Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That says a lot more about a limited vocabulary than it does about your opponents. If you truly are unable to engage conservatives without calling them “idiots, bigots and dupes”, perhaps you should work on that. Maybe try outlining the positions you disagree with, and offering alternatives, rather than just insults. Ridicule and diatribe is a classic Saul Alinsky tactic. His book,“Rules for Radicals” has served as an instruction manual for leftist, whether in their liberal, progressive or socialist stage, for decades. Rule no. 4: " Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. Stay on point and consider the who, where and why as to ‘blowback.’ — a good indicator as to just how spot-on your point is. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/29 "2013-08-12T02:06:29Z")
[quote=“Little\_Nemo, post:26, topic:665948”] That, in my opinion, would be a mistake. One of the best advantages the Democratic Party has is that the Republicans keep running to the right. One of the best advantages the Democrat Party has is that many Republicans have little or no core principles. And as a result, are continually running to the right, the left, or anywhere they can seek ‘safe harbor’ during a political storm. ---
**Author:** ![Knavette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Knavette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knavette)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/30 "2013-08-12T02:28:30Z")
I live in a very conservative state. I am surrounded by the Tea Party and its sentiments. Much of it seems to lie in making people who feel marginalized and demeaned by intellectuals important. Be it giving them lots of gun rights, getting them mad about abortion, or just letting them have all the Rebel Yelling they like, as such, they feel such power and control, because, frankly, when you are driving old truck with bald tires and live in a rusty mobile home, it feels great to have an American/Confederate flag on your front lawn with its ground in dirt along with the cross and a “Jesus Saves” placard in the window. I see all kinds of Tea Partiers hanging around here, but few of anything else. Yet, I actually know many who are worried, who don’t buy the Tea Party crap, and who would like to kick some politicians out of office (like a State Rep we have here who said that people having healthcare through exchanges encourages lazyness!!) — Democrats seem omniously silent around here. Yes, they do not get many votes, but multiply this area by the many thousands all over the country – and those few votes add up to alot. And when we do have a Dem campaigning, he or she makes sure everyone knows they are pro Life or “a conservative Dem.” That’s dumb, too. I just think Dems need to get loud. And out there. Though maybe that idea is just too simple. ---
**Author:** ![NotDeadYet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NotDeadYet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotDeadYet)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/31 "2013-08-12T02:36:31Z")
2014 will be a good year for the GOP. Of this I have little doubt. But come 2016, it will depend upon just how nasty the GOP primaries become. If Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Rand Paul, the far-right talk radio crowd and yes, the Tea Party start in on anyone who does not pass a litmus test for the new conservative orthodoxy and the GOP begins to eat its own, the Democratic Party will be far more attractive to moderate and even right-leaning voters. Remember, the GOP has real problems with virtually every demographic group except older white men and its not like anything they are saying will appeal to women, minorities, students, younger voters, the millions without health insurance, etc… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/32 "2013-08-12T03:21:13Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That says a lot more about a limited vocabulary than it does about your opponents. If you truly are unable to engage conservatives . . . This thread is not about **engaging** them, it is about **defeating** them at the polls. I am arguing that we need to get mean to do that; and I can’t discuss that without saying what Dems should be saying. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Maybe try outlining the positions you disagree with, and offering alternatives, rather than just insults. We already **tried** that. A **lot.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/33 "2013-08-12T03:24:34Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > One of the best advantages the Democrat Party has is that many Republicans have little or no core principles. And as a result, are continually running to the right, the left, or anywhere they can seek ‘safe harbor’ during a political storm. When was the last time they ran to the left? Liberal Rockefeller Republicans are a thing of the distant past. I presume by “Republicans” you here mean pols, not voters. Presumably the latter have some core principles, or why vote for any party consistently? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/34 "2013-08-12T03:27:06Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > Ridicule and diatribe is a classic Saul Alinsky tactic. His book,“Rules for Radicals” has served as an instruction manual for leftist, whether in their liberal, progressive or socialist stage, for decades. Well, Karl Rove and even Glenn Beck appear to have learned a lot more from Alinsky then Dems or liberals or progressives have. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/35 "2013-08-12T03:28:33Z")
> [@NotDeadYet](#): > > 2014 will be a good year for the GOP. Of this I have little doubt. But come 2016, it will depend upon just how nasty the GOP primaries become. If Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Rand Paul, the far-right talk radio crowd and yes, the Tea Party start in on anyone who does not pass a litmus test for the new conservative orthodoxy and the GOP begins to eat its own, the Democratic Party will be far more attractive to moderate and even right-leaning voters. In the presidential election, certainly, but this thread is about state and local elections and how Dems can win **those.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/36 "2013-08-12T03:30:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That, in my opinion, would be a mistake. One of the best advantages the Democratic Party has is that the Republicans keep running to the right. This leaves the political center open for the Democrats. The Democrats can act us a moderate centrist party and still collect votes of the left. But that is pointless if it means **governing** from the center, as practically every Dem POTUS since LBJ has done. Let’s not be in this to win just for the sake of winning. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/37 "2013-08-12T05:01:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But that is pointless if it means **governing** from the center, as practically every Dem POTUS since LBJ has done. Let’s not be in this to win just for the sake of winning. I’m not. I actually am a moderate and I generally support Democrats because they’re usually the moderate candidates. So I approve when they govern as moderates and I would feel betrayed if a candidate ran as a moderate and then turned left after the election. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/38 "2013-08-12T05:42:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not. I actually am a moderate and I generally support Democrats because they’re usually the moderate candidates. So I approve when they govern as moderates and I would feel betrayed if a candidate ran as a moderate and then turned left after the election. But how would you feel if a candidate ran as a leftist, and won, and remained a leftist after the election? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/39 "2013-08-12T07:43:57Z")
How about focus on this: Dem messaging toward RW idiots, bigots and dupes. What is really the best way to reach them? Comedy? Insults? Radio? Truly, what is it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948/40 "2013-08-12T10:34:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But how would you feel if a candidate ran as a leftist, and won, and remained a leftist after the election? Surprised. bDOOM _kssh_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-democrats-figure-out-and-fix-why-theyre-losing-locally/665948.md?page=3)